BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

10 - 4 good buddy.........

wrote


Love your new handle!

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

No, he's not. Sad, ain't it?


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...
Right again. Are you just pretending to be stupid?

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

We already knew that.


"Bobsprit" wrote


I'm a weekend loser.

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

"Bobsprit" wrote
Compared to Ganzy and Scotty I'm frikin' Columbus!

Must be why you wrote this;

From: Bobsprit )
Subject: What's New with You?
Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa



Dang!!! 10 days!!!!
I can't wait for Suzzane to finish school!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Ha ha.good one Jeff, you tired of poking Donal?

Scotty

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...

Perhaps you mean serious ocean RACERS. A serious cruiser needs the best
interior possible to insure he's well rested, comfortable and able to
cook
properly.

And which category do you fit in?

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

"Bobsprit" wrote


I can't even recall a article in cruising world from a
couple on such a boat.

Did they cover your 'passage' to Thimble Island?

BWaHaaaaaaaaHAhahaHaaaaaaaaaa

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Oh, but he's *gonna* go for a longer cruise next year. And wasn't he
*gonna* do the round the island race? And he's *gonna* get a ham radio for
the new boat he's *gonna* get.

Me thinks he has gonna rea.

Scotty


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Give me a break. Wow, you went 175 miles and that's supposed to
be the extent of your cruising experience. And, you made a lot of
stops... motoring, shopping, etc. The only actual cruising it sounds like
you did was in trailway stations for runaways.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
How far is it to the thimbles for you?

Cheers

I think it was like 60 or 70, but we made some stops and detours. We
logged
150-175 miles or so for the whole trip. Like I said, it was short. We
only
ran
the motor for the last few hours when the wind left us for dead in
really
bad
heat. When we got back Suzanne said "where are we going next??!!" That
was
encouraging and we have a really nice long trip planned for the
summer...at
least long compared to the Thimbles.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

You're barely a weekend cruiser. Your boat is bloated with all kinds
of crap


Jonathan, we took four 3 day weekend trips last summer, one a bit longer, plus
plenty of overnighters. We sailed 3-4 days per week all summer, many of those
at night.
Please explain to all of us what gear came on my sailboat that is slowing her
down?

This should be interesting, since it's mostly safety gear!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Sure they do. That's got nothing to do with what I was typing about.
In fact, anyone who cruises for long distances, gets rid of whatever
doesn't serve a useful purpose.

Where are these baerbones stripped out "cruisers" Ganzy? Show us? Every boat I
see that cruises is nicely fitted out with comfy interiors.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:34:09 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

Well, there is no doubt that many a "cruising boat" never leaves the
dock,
but I read a long time ago that if one is struggling with the
compromises of a particular "cruising" boat, it is important to
remember that most cruisers spend more time living aboard than
actually under sail, so it is best to consider the boat from a
"liveaboard" viewpoint. Everyone has their own set of priorities. A
friend of mine spent what I thought was a princely sum on an aluminum
spade anchor for his Catalina 36 because he "didn't want too much
weight on the bow." Of course, he had a big honking electric windlass
up there..:) As my old dear departed grandma used to say.."he would
gag on a gnat and swallow a camel."

I am not sure of what most of your cruiser friends are foregoing. The
weight of the tankage, ground tackle, BIG battery banks, gensets,
inverters all weigh a lot and most are considered almost standard
these days.


"felton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

You're actually
claiming that people do overload them with gagets and crap, and
this is supposedly a good thing?

I like how you tried and failed to make this about gadgets. We were talking
about nice interiors, which are almost always found on "real" cruising boats.
In fact I can't find a builder who makes a "spartan" cruiser. Certainly not
Oyster, Valiant, Swan, Baltic, Hinkley, J-Boats, Shannon, Morris,....the list
goes on an on.
But maybe "real" sailors carefull strip out the wood and trim on these babies,
rip out the furniture...then carefully glue it back for resale?
Face it, Ganzy. You're busted.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Gee, I made it off the dock and I had plenty of creature comforts. I think
you're both making too many generalities here. With a boat bigger than 27 feet
it isn't an "either/or" issue. You can add a "boatload" of toys to a boat for
only a few hundred extra pounds. How much does a DVD player weigh? Or an MP3
disk? Cruisers make decision about these things not based on weight, but on
what type of lifestyle that want when on board. I have cousins that cruise
Maine & Nova Scotia each summer and never have had a TV or fridge on board. I
also have liveaboard friends that carry a large array of comfort stuff - TV,
VCR, high power computer, full woodworking shop, dive gear, etc. - all the more
impressive because they live dirt cheap. (It was worse 15 years ago - they
carried an HP Laserjet II, plus a small genset to power it, on their 32 footer!)

As for racers, I remember going aboard DuraCell, the 50 footer Mike Plant built
for the '89 Vendee and the '90 BOC. He had removed the toilet seat to save
weight. And, of course, the head was in the middle of the main cabin.



"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them.

This is "made up" since it really suits across the board. Most people who buy
ANY sailboat don't have a lifestyle to allow for long trips
This past summer I met couples who WERE cruising....on a Lord Nelson and a
Shannon. In both cases these were not stripped out boats or spartan in the
least.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

"Bob****" wrote

We were talking
about nice interiors, which are almost always found on "real" cruising
boats.
In fact I can't find a builder who makes a "spartan" cruiser. Certainly
not
Oyster, Valiant, Swan, Seidelmann, J-Boats, Shannon, Morris,....the list
goes on an on.
But maybe "real" sailors carefull strip out the wood and trim on these
babies,
rip out the furniture...then carefully glue it back for resale?

Do you know any real sailors?

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 day weekend trips!!!!! You ARE frickin Columbus!

BWaaHaaHaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah


"Bob****" wrote


Jonathan, we took four 3 day weekend trips last summer,

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

You're the one bsing. Most creature comforts are only
good while you're in port. The rest of the time, the issue
is whether or not the feature contributes to survivability.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:34:09 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.


Baloney! If this is truly based on your "experience", then you have very
little.

BB

"felton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their
crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener
ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan
interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

No doubt, but I'm not really talking about a harbor
liveaboard. I like the camel analogy.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:34:09 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

Well, there is no doubt that many a "cruising boat" never leaves the
dock,
but I read a long time ago that if one is struggling with the
compromises of a particular "cruising" boat, it is important to
remember that most cruisers spend more time living aboard than
actually under sail, so it is best to consider the boat from a
"liveaboard" viewpoint. Everyone has their own set of priorities. A
friend of mine spent what I thought was a princely sum on an aluminum
spade anchor for his Catalina 36 because he "didn't want too much
weight on the bow." Of course, he had a big honking electric windlass
up there..:) As my old dear departed grandma used to say.."he would
gag on a gnat and swallow a camel."

I am not sure of what most of your cruiser friends are foregoing. The
weight of the tankage, ground tackle, BIG battery banks, gensets,
inverters all weigh a lot and most are considered almost standard
these days.


"felton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their
crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener
ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan
interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home" packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Sure, but then you have to have a genset... and then the weight can add up.
And, it's not just about weight. The nice looking lounge seat is nice while
your sitting on your anchor, but it doesn't contribute much when actually
sailing. Lots of people forgo that kind of feature.

You're right, that we're both making too many generalities. I was responding
to bob's bs post about stuff he knows nothing about.

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Gee, I made it off the dock and I had plenty of creature comforts. I
think
you're both making too many generalities here. With a boat bigger than
27 feet
it isn't an "either/or" issue. You can add a "boatload" of toys to a boat
for
only a few hundred extra pounds. How much does a DVD player weigh? Or an
MP3
disk? Cruisers make decision about these things not based on weight, but
on
what type of lifestyle that want when on board. I have cousins that
cruise
Maine & Nova Scotia each summer and never have had a TV or fridge on
board. I
also have liveaboard friends that carry a large array of comfort stuff -
TV,
VCR, high power computer, full woodworking shop, dive gear, etc. - all the
more
impressive because they live dirt cheap. (It was worse 15 years ago -
they
carried an HP Laserjet II, plus a small genset to power it, on their 32
footer!)

As for racers, I remember going aboard DuraCell, the 50 footer Mike Plant
built
for the '89 Vendee and the '90 BOC. He had removed the toilet seat to
save
weight. And, of course, the head was in the middle of the main cabin.



"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
I never said that a cruiser would opt for pipe berths, etc.
What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't. In my experience,
those who opt for creature comforts over function, never
make it off the dock.

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:41:08 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. That's a fact. In addition, neither are they cruised on the
ocean
or in protected waters for the most part. Mostly, their owners sit on
them
and entertain.

You need to get out more. Just about every serious cruiser I've ever
spoken
with or whose boat I've seen are very, very particular about what
they
pack
and what they jetison. The ones who aren't particular either don't go
anywhere
and thus aren't really serious or they end up dumping a lot of their
crap
very
quickly.

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.
While I think that some boat builders spend a disproportionate amount
of time/money/energy on the aesthetics of the interiors, I would be a
bit concerned if the interior looked poorly constructed or thought
out. I notice even the volume production builders are putting in
higher dollar hardware in the interiors than they used to. Gone are
the days of cheap light fixtures crappy upholstery:) Of course, boats
cost a lot more than they used to. I suspect the weakening dollar
will have quite an effect on the European boats.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them. Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters.

Raced? I'm talking cruising, Jonathan. The Valiant 40, Gardener
ketch
at
my
club sail to warm waters every year. They don't have spartan
interiors.
Every
serious cruiser I ever saw or read about had plenty of "home"
packed
into
the
boat. Nothing spartan.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Yeah sure. And you met the Pope and he's your email buddy too.
We for sure believe you.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them.

This is "made up" since it really suits across the board. Most people who
buy
ANY sailboat don't have a lifestyle to allow for long trips
This past summer I met couples who WERE cruising....on a Lord Nelson and a
Shannon. In both cases these were not stripped out boats or spartan in the
least.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Quite.

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
No, he's not. Sad, ain't it?


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...
Right again. Are you just pretending to be stupid?

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Face it booby, you don't know anything about sailing.

This is about you presenting yourself as some kind of self-styled
expert. You're not. You're a joke.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
You're actually
claiming that people do overload them with gagets and crap, and
this is supposedly a good thing?

I like how you tried and failed to make this about gadgets. We were
talking
about nice interiors, which are almost always found on "real" cruising
boats.
In fact I can't find a builder who makes a "spartan" cruiser. Certainly
not
Oyster, Valiant, Swan, Baltic, Hinkley, J-Boats, Shannon, Morris,....the
list
goes on an on.
But maybe "real" sailors carefull strip out the wood and trim on these
babies,
rip out the furniture...then carefully glue it back for resale?
Face it, Ganzy. You're busted.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

If you go look at many, even most long-distance cruisers, you'll see
that they've widowed down their requirements to what is actually
useful. It's not my job to educate you, even though you're obviously
unable to educate yourself.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Sure they do. That's got nothing to do with what I was typing about.
In fact, anyone who cruises for long distances, gets rid of whatever
doesn't serve a useful purpose.

Where are these baerbones stripped out "cruisers" Ganzy? Show us? Every
boat I
see that cruises is nicely fitted out with comfy interiors.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Not sure what planet you're from, but most of the boats
in every marina I've been in never leave the dock. That's
not cruising.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:34:32 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

Most people who buy these sorts of boats never do a lot of sailing
on them.

??? What do you base that specious claim on? I know of some people with
very
expensive cruising sailboats who rarely cruise, but they are clearly in
the
minority. The "sit at the dock and party " lifestyle is found far more
often
with powerboats.

Sure, they're great boats, but they're not usually raced
on the ocean or in protected waters. They're wildly expensive
and weigh more than necessary. Sure they can cross oceans, but
they don't generally. Mostly, they sit at the dock with their owners
sitting on them, and with their owners entertaining their snobby
friends.


You need to get out more. A LOT more.


BB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Yeah, bob gets confused when I put to many b's in a word.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 12:48:26 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"

wrote:

You're barely a weekend cruiser. Your boat is bloated with all kinds
of crap, just like your deck is cluttered with fenders. No cruiser in
his right mind would let that happen. If you think Cruising World is
the defining magazine about cruising, you're even dummer than I
imagined.


dummer?

BB


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
interior possible to insure he's well rested, comfortable and able to
cook
properly.

And which category do you fit in?


I'm a weekend cruiser. Last summer we took only four trips, the longest
was
just beyond the Thimble Islands. This summer we have a more significant
trip
planned, but I'll wait until it's over before stunning daysailors like
Ganzy
and Scott. These guys don't go anywhere and probably never will. With
our
new
boat already settled, Suzanne and I have a good plan to increase our
time
on
the water and make looker passages. When I read a silly comment from
Ganzy
about spartan interiors on "serious" cruisers I have to wonder what he
really
knows about boats. I can't even recall a article in cruising world from
a
couple on such a boat. Maybe he doesn't think that makes for a
"serious"
cruiser.
Compared to Ganzy and Scotty I'm frikin' Columbus!

Bwahahahahahaaha! Gotta love their jealous posts though.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

And, amazingly, you were able to post on the ng the whole time! An amazing
feat.

Besides you, I wouldn't know. Perhaps the fenders.

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
You're barely a weekend cruiser. Your boat is bloated with all kinds
of crap


Jonathan, we took four 3 day weekend trips last summer, one a bit longer,
plus
plenty of overnighters. We sailed 3-4 days per week all summer, many of
those
at night.
Please explain to all of us what gear came on my sailboat that is slowing
her
down?

This should be interesting, since it's mostly safety gear!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Pretty amazingly funny and stupid. But, he wins!!

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
WoW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 day weekend trips!!!!! You ARE frickin Columbus!

BWaaHaaHaHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah


"Bob****" wrote


Jonathan, we took four 3 day weekend trips last summer,

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When I did a cruise down the coast, it was a real challenge to use the head
because it was on the starboard side and we were on a starboard tack the
whole way. Sort of like ****ing up hill. One guy forgot to lock the head
door,
and when we hit a small wave, he got dumped on the floor with his pants
down. Then, when we came through and the boat leveled somewhat, he
got thrown back in the head compartment, and the door slammed. He didn't
make that mistake a second time.

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:48:59 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

You're the one bsing. Most creature comforts are only
good while you're in port. The rest of the time, the issue
is whether or not the feature contributes to survivability.

True,
Those nice saloons are useless at sea because everything falls off the
table, try sitting on that settee when it's to windward.

The wonderful flat broad bunks are useable only after you pad up the
side so you can lie against the side.

Bunks big enough for two are used only by individuals because no-one
wants to be stacked up against another.

The head is almost useless and most sailors prefer the briny toilet.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

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Oh, but he's *gonna* go for a longer cruise next year. And wasn't he
*gonna* do the round the island race? And he's *gonna* get a ham radio for
the new boat he's *gonna* get.


Scotty, sorry to report that the new boat is already a done deal. And I did buy
a 10 meter ham radio and I did sail more than you did last year by far.

Poor jealous scotty!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Face it booby, you don't know anything about sailing.

I won.
I can list every blue water builder from Ted Hood to Beneteau's premium line
and NONE are as Ganzy outlined.
All are clearly blue water sailboats. No spartan interiors.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

If you go look at many, even most long-distance cruisers, you'll see
that they've widowed down their requirements to what is actually
useful.

Please educate the group. Valiant has one of the best records for boats that
make crossings, an the interiors aren't spartan by a mile.
Please educate the whole group on a builder who sells a stripped out race
interior as a cruiser!
Go ahead!

Bwahahahaahaha! I won!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

Not sure what planet you're from, but most of the boats
in every marina I've been in never leave the dock. That's
not cruising.

Agreed...and this has nothing to do with spartan exteriors..still waiting for
that list of builders from Ganzy, but he know's he's busted.

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

What happened, Ganzy?
Still waiting to hear what gear on my boat is "too much" in the way of gadgets.
You must mean the two VHFs!
No...that's just good sense. You must mean the radar! Nope....that's already
been of use and came with the boat. You must mean the mapping GPS! No....most
everyone has one, so that can't be it. You must mean my autopilot! Nah...both
came with the boat and they've been handy.
You must mean my handheld windmeter!
Yeah!!! Damn heavy thing!

Ganzy, I've so utterly exposed you as a dumbass. You know nothing about boats
or gear because you don't own more than a daysailing toy. Better still, I
managed to slap Scotty who, idiot that he is, strapped himself to your flaming
star!

Bwahahahahahaha! Hahahahaha! Ha!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

I can't imagine a "cruiser" opting for pipe berths and a stripped out
interior. Most cruising boats are designed with lots of tankage and
storage capacity for the carrying of provisions, ground tackle, tools,
spares and all the rest. It would seem to me that ignoring basic
creature comforts in a cruising boat would be pretty short sighted.

Not according to Ganzy. He thinks a "serious" sailor would just snuggle up to
the saildrive for warmth!
Where's that list of builders, Ganzy??!!

Bwahahahahahaha!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

What I did say was that a real cruiser would carefully
weigh what is important and what isn't.


100% a lie.
Ganzy said that serious cruisers opt for SPARTAN INTERIORS which is false. Most
of todays good cruising boats are loaded with creature comforts and gear and
perform well.

I win!!!! Bwahahahahaha!

RB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:47:19 GMT,
scribbled thusly:


On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:48:59 -0800, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:


You're the one bsing. Most creature comforts are only
good while you're in port.

Most cruisers travel from port to port except for folks like Chichester. You
really don't know much about cruising.

BB


Dayhopping down the coast doesn't count.
Try sailing to a decent destination and see how much use you get from
your fancy interior on the way.
Two, three, or 6 days at sea will soon convince you that real sailors
have little use for traditional creature comforts.



I like my bedding to be warm and dry. Isn't that a creature comfort?

Cheers MC

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sure, but then you have to have a genset... and then the weight can add up.
And, it's not just about weight. The nice looking lounge seat is nice while
your sitting on your anchor, but it doesn't contribute much when actually
sailing. Lots of people forgo that kind of feature.

You're right, that we're both making too many generalities. I was responding
to bob's bs post about stuff he knows nothing about.

Actually none of my toys (nor my liveaboard friends' current boat) require a
genset. However, I've sometimes felt that I should have got twin outboards and
a genset, rather than the twin diesels.

I could say what I really think about interiors, but it would probably be seen
as a sign of weakness. Suffice it to say that I have a nice looking lounge
which I enjoy at anchor. (I usually don't get to use it underway, but my kid
does!)

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Oh but he is an expert, after all, he's taken a few 3 day weekend sails.

BWaHahahahahhahahahahaaaaaa


"Jonathan Ganz" wrote ...
Face it booby, you don't know anything about sailing.

This is about you presenting yourself as some kind of self-styled
expert. You're not. You're a joke.

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

and I'm guessing he saw no sailboats cruising. What is your point?

SV

wrote in message


A few years ago, a reporter in Connecticut wanted to see how many people
were
obeying the 55 mph speed limit on the highways. He drove for a week at 55
MPH
and didn't see even one person going the same speed. See if you can figure
it
out,.

BB

BOAT SHOW REPORT
 

only in the Matrix.


"Bobsprit" wrote


Scotty, the sorry new boat is already a done deal. And I did buy
a 10 meter ham radio but I didn't sail more than you did last year.


RuBe