Sure, they teach celestial - they just don't require it. There are other skills more
important.

Unless you are planning to do numerous long distance passages, celestial is useless. You
may enjoy learning it, it is an interesting intellectual exercise, but it has little to do
with coastal cruising. Twenty-five years ago I tried to do a sight every day; I haven't
brought a sextant onboard in 8 years.

-j

felton wrote:
I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation. I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use? Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:36:10 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote:

Sure, they teach celestial - they just don't require it. There are other skills more
important.

Unless you are planning to do numerous long distance passages, celestial is useless. You
may enjoy learning it, it is an interesting intellectual exercise, but it has little to do
with coastal cruising. Twenty-five years ago I tried to do a sight every day; I haven't
brought a sextant onboard in 8 years.

-j

Thanks, Jeff. That is what I was thinking. The piloting and coastal
nav courses I have taken have been very useful, but I need to find
something else to work on to try to develop my seamanship. USPS has
been good, but I need to find something worthwhile if I am going to
put in the time and effort.


felton wrote:
I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation. I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use? Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

I think it's worth knowing, but I doubt you'll have much use for
it, except for fun. It's too easy to have multiple GPS backups.
The last extended trip I took, we had 5 handhelds and a fixed
mount GPS. We ended up arguing about the .xxx digits.

felton wrote in message ...
I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation. I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use? Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

felton wrote:

I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation.

What are your sailing/cruising goals? If you are planning on doing any
extended cruising, then you should know as much about navigation as you
can learn (ditto about electricity, engines, etc etc). Knowledge is power!



I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

This is misleading. Graduating cadets are not expected to navigate ships,
but line officers are. The celestial nav courses were moved to an
appropriate curriculum for post grads, whereas cadets had three or four
other hard courses shoved in.



Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use?

If it keeps you from being lost at sea after your GPS is either fried,
dropped, or soaked, then clestial skills (even if it is only shooting sun
lines) will bring your butt into port alive.



Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

Personally, I count all knowledge as a net gain. YMMV.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message ...

Personally, I count all knowledge as a net gain. YMMV.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


That's the funniest statement I've read so far this year.
Bwaaahahahhahhahahahhahahahhahahaha!

It's so funny because it comes from one of the least
knowledgeable subscribers .asa has ever had the
misfortune to attract.

S.Simon

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:19:57 -0400, DSK wrote:

felton wrote:

I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation.

What are your sailing/cruising goals? If you are planning on doing any
extended cruising, then you should know as much about navigation as you
can learn (ditto about electricity, engines, etc etc). Knowledge is power!

While I agree with your premise, I am really trying to determine if my
time would be better spent learning something more likely to have some
use to me. I tend to believe that celestial is so far down the list
of skills that *might* be useful, that perhaps my time would be better
invested in an amateur radio license, for example. There must be
other ways to improve myself in some way that may be useful, rather
than just interesting.



I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

This is misleading. Graduating cadets are not expected to navigate ships,
but line officers are. The celestial nav courses were moved to an
appropriate curriculum for post grads, whereas cadets had three or four
other hard courses shoved in.



Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use?

If it keeps you from being lost at sea after your GPS is either fried,
dropped, or soaked, then clestial skills (even if it is only shooting sun
lines) will bring your butt into port alive.

True enough, but it seems likely that I could counter those risks more
easily than learning celestial navigation, but I do concede that it
would be useful in those circumstances.


Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

Personally, I count all knowledge as a net gain. YMMV.

I do too, but I haven't signed up for piano lessons, either


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

felton wrote:


While I agree with your premise, I am really trying to determine if my
time would be better spent learning something more likely to have some
use to me.

Well, celestial is a rarely used skill even by passagemakers any more. If
you're going coastal cruising, even less so.


I tend to believe that celestial is so far down the list
of skills that *might* be useful, that perhaps my time would be better
invested in an amateur radio license, for example. There must be
other ways to improve myself in some way that may be useful, rather
than just interesting.

Agreed.


If it keeps you from being lost at sea after your GPS is either fried,
dropped, or soaked, then clestial skills (even if it is only shooting sun
lines) will bring your butt into port alive.

True enough, but it seems likely that I could counter those risks more
easily than learning celestial navigation, but I do concede that it
would be useful in those circumstances.

Here's the rub- how much do you want to be able to save your own bacon when
(not if) your electronic doodads go down the drain? You can always beg a
position from a passing boat, or if you've kept a good DR you can probably find
your way close enough to the harbor mouth to spot the high rise hotels.

I've heard stories of people relying on GPS in really hair raising
circumstances, such as running inlets blind in storms. They lived to tell the
tale, but it's still just another form of Russian Roulette.

BTW from anecdotal evidence, the failure rate of electronic nav aids on
passages is about 10%. Obviously this doesn't include incidents where loss of
ships navigation lead to fatality





Personally, I count all knowledge as a net gain. YMMV.

I do too, but I haven't signed up for piano lessons, either

Me neither, but then I do take my guitar when cruising... it gets a lot more
use than my sextant...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Me neither, but then I do take my guitar when cruising... it gets a
lot more use than my sextant...

Accoustic? Do you get any problems with moisture?


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

DSK wrote:
Me neither, but then I do take my guitar when cruising... it gets a
lot more use than my sextant...

Wally wrote:
Accoustic? Do you get any problems with moisture?

Yes. The strings rust a lot faster than at home, but it's only a small
problem. I'm sure the salt & humidity don't help the guitar's structure
either. However I don't take expensive guitars cruising. My "main"
cruising guitar (an Alvarez copy of a Gibson J-200 arch-top jumbo) lasted
about 15 years, after which it still was imminently playable and sounded
great. I gave it to a Russian mechanic. It was a minor pain in the neck
because it was so big. I now have a small bodied Canadian folk guitar
which stows much easier and has gone for about 5 years.

The real problem with guitars & cruising is that I keep meeting much
better guitar players than myself, and cannot remember all the music
material I should be learning from them.

DSK

It depends on where you plan to cruise, and/or how much you want to know.
If during the majority of your cruising, you will stay within 1-2 days
of landfall, I wouldn't be too concerned about having the ability,
except as something you would care to know about.
However, if you will be making longer trips, out of sight of land, I
would consider it well worth the effort and ability.
You don't really need to know all the why's and wherefores of what you
are doing, but mainly the steps involved in going through the sight and
various tables, to come up with a solution (or basic inputs, for a
computer).
Although the Naval Academy does not make celestial a required course,
the Maritime Academies do, for those going for a deck license.
In reality, the choice is yours ..... you can carry a whole bunch of
spare batteries and handhelds, or a sextant, tables, and/or a calculator.
GPS advantage - turn it on and it works G
Celestial - needs practice to be good, and some never do become good.

otn

felton wrote:
I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation. I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use? Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.