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Old May 2nd 05, 01:23 AM
pjbphd
 
Posts: n/a
Default SOAR 16 versus Old Town Appalachian

I'm trying to make a decision on a canoe purchase and I hope someone in this
group can offer some advice and perhaps opinions.



I live and canoe rivers in the southwest United States and northwest Mexico.
Places like the Green, San Juan, and Yaqui Rivers. I'm usually out for a
week, give or take a day, and with one or two other two person boats in our
parties. As you can imagine, rivers here vary considerably depending upon
the water year and other factors. We generally run up to class three rapids
and often have to drag boats over rocks in some shallow reaches. We also
occasionally T-bone a boulder or two while on the water. The conditions can
be hard on canoes.



In the past I've used Old Town Appalachians
(http://www.otccanoe.com/canoes_appalachian.php) and Mad River Revelations,
which I think has been replaced by the Explorer 16rx
(http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...orer_16_rx.jpg), both 16
ft Royalex boats. We are carrying a lot of gear, but also need
maneuverability in swift water.



On a trip last year, some friends brought a SOAR 16 ft inflatable boat
(http://www.soar1.com/soar_16.htm). I was extremely impressed with how
forgiving it was on rocks and its handling in some rapids that we in the
Royalex boats needed to line. It's also self bailing which of course helps
when we take on some water in the middle of a run. The downside is, it's
more expensive, and although SOAR claims it has a cargo capacity of 17 +
cubic feet, it certainly carried less gear than the thin hulled Old Towns
and Mad Rivers. I've also been told that being an inflatable, they are
slugs in a headwind, something we invariably get a day or two of on any
trips.



My choice is coming down to the Appalachian and the SOAR 16. I'd like to
hear any recommendations on the boats, as well as necessary accessories for
either one. I also sea kayak so I have the usual stuff, PFDs, dry bags,
etc. For accessories I'm thinking more along the lines of seat upgrades,
expedition repair kits, etc.



Thanks in advance.



pjb


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net



  #2   Report Post  
Old May 2nd 05, 07:37 AM
padeen
 
Posts: n/a
Default

pjb, this is a no-brainer for me. I've owned both and the only really good
thing I can say for an inflatable is that they fit much better into a small
airplane for remote trips. Otherwise, here is the list of advantages the
Appy has over the duck:

1) it's dryer
2) it carries more bulk
3) it keeps your gear dryer
4) it's MUCH faster
5) it's MUCH more maneuverable, esp. w/ a load
6) it can hold three or four extra kids for short trips
7) It's much faster
8) it's much more rewarding to paddle
9) with float bags and thigh straps it is a great ww tandem boat
10) it's considerably cheaper
11) a hole in it won't put you on the beach
11) it's much faster
12) you don't have to drag aroun a pump
13) it won't explode on a hot day
14) it's much faster
15) nobody will quack at you on the river

If you'd rather bounce off rocks than glide safely by, get a duck.
Padeen



d" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I'm trying to make a decision on a canoe purchase and I hope someone in

this
group can offer some advice and perhaps opinions.



I live and canoe rivers in the southwest United States and northwest

Mexico.
Places like the Green, San Juan, and Yaqui Rivers. I'm usually out for a
week, give or take a day, and with one or two other two person boats in

our
parties. As you can imagine, rivers here vary considerably depending upon
the water year and other factors. We generally run up to class three

rapids
and often have to drag boats over rocks in some shallow reaches. We also
occasionally T-bone a boulder or two while on the water. The conditions

can
be hard on canoes.



In the past I've used Old Town Appalachians
(http://www.otccanoe.com/canoes_appalachian.php) and Mad River

Revelations,
which I think has been replaced by the Explorer 16rx
(http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...orer_16_rx.jpg), both

16
ft Royalex boats. We are carrying a lot of gear, but also need
maneuverability in swift water.



On a trip last year, some friends brought a SOAR 16 ft inflatable boat
(http://www.soar1.com/soar_16.htm). I was extremely impressed with how
forgiving it was on rocks and its handling in some rapids that we in the
Royalex boats needed to line. It's also self bailing which of course

helps
when we take on some water in the middle of a run. The downside is, it's
more expensive, and although SOAR claims it has a cargo capacity of 17 +
cubic feet, it certainly carried less gear than the thin hulled Old Towns
and Mad Rivers. I've also been told that being an inflatable, they are
slugs in a headwind, something we invariably get a day or two of on any
trips.



My choice is coming down to the Appalachian and the SOAR 16. I'd like to
hear any recommendations on the boats, as well as necessary accessories

for
either one. I also sea kayak so I have the usual stuff, PFDs, dry bags,
etc. For accessories I'm thinking more along the lines of seat upgrades,
expedition repair kits, etc.



Thanks in advance.



pjb


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net




  #3   Report Post  
Old May 16th 05, 10:19 PM
Charles d'Autremont
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yep, the SOAR is a slug on fla****er and windy days. This can be
significantly improved by gluing a plug in the floor pressure relief valve.

Basically it is like paddling an air mattress. And yet, and yet! There are
pluses.

Much more forgiving. I have paddled one in Grand Canyon and probably would
not paddle the Old Town down there.

A big plus is that there is now a nifty rowing rig for this boat which makes
it like an old fashioned cataract canoe.

It fits in my plane.

It goes on the airlines. Put it in a golf bag.

Perfect? No. Good solo self support boat on the San Juan, Desolation, etc.
Yep.

Pump is a pain, but so is a wrap.

Tell me about the Yaqui. I too live in the southwest.

best,

Chuck

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I'm trying to make a decision on a canoe purchase and I hope someone in
this
group can offer some advice and perhaps opinions.



I live and canoe rivers in the southwest United States and northwest
Mexico.
Places like the Green, San Juan, and Yaqui Rivers. I'm usually out for a
week, give or take a day, and with one or two other two person boats in
our
parties. As you can imagine, rivers here vary considerably depending upon
the water year and other factors. We generally run up to class three
rapids
and often have to drag boats over rocks in some shallow reaches. We also
occasionally T-bone a boulder or two while on the water. The conditions
can
be hard on canoes.



In the past I've used Old Town Appalachians
(http://www.otccanoe.com/canoes_appalachian.php) and Mad River
Revelations,
which I think has been replaced by the Explorer 16rx
(http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...orer_16_rx.jpg), both
16
ft Royalex boats. We are carrying a lot of gear, but also need
maneuverability in swift water.



On a trip last year, some friends brought a SOAR 16 ft inflatable boat
(http://www.soar1.com/soar_16.htm). I was extremely impressed with how
forgiving it was on rocks and its handling in some rapids that we in the
Royalex boats needed to line. It's also self bailing which of course
helps
when we take on some water in the middle of a run. The downside is, it's
more expensive, and although SOAR claims it has a cargo capacity of 17 +
cubic feet, it certainly carried less gear than the thin hulled Old Towns
and Mad Rivers. I've also been told that being an inflatable, they are
slugs in a headwind, something we invariably get a day or two of on any
trips.



My choice is coming down to the Appalachian and the SOAR 16. I'd like to
hear any recommendations on the boats, as well as necessary accessories
for
either one. I also sea kayak so I have the usual stuff, PFDs, dry bags,
etc. For accessories I'm thinking more along the lines of seat upgrades,
expedition repair kits, etc.



Thanks in advance.



pjb


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net




  #4   Report Post  
Old May 17th 05, 03:24 AM
Paul V
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I have a soar 12 and an Appalachian. I use the soar for class 3 rivers and
going out in the ocean. If you are traveling with other hardside canoes,
you will not be able to keep up with them in the soar unless the water is
moving pretty good. The soar is very forgiving and if you paddle alot with
beginners it will let you take them down some class 3 stuff without much
problem.

Both boats are good, but I just use them for different conditions.
Paul in PA
"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I'm trying to make a decision on a canoe purchase and I hope someone in

this
group can offer some advice and perhaps opinions.



I live and canoe rivers in the southwest United States and northwest

Mexico.
Places like the Green, San Juan, and Yaqui Rivers. I'm usually out for a
week, give or take a day, and with one or two other two person boats in

our
parties. As you can imagine, rivers here vary considerably depending upon
the water year and other factors. We generally run up to class three

rapids
and often have to drag boats over rocks in some shallow reaches. We also
occasionally T-bone a boulder or two while on the water. The conditions

can
be hard on canoes.



In the past I've used Old Town Appalachians
(http://www.otccanoe.com/canoes_appalachian.php) and Mad River

Revelations,
which I think has been replaced by the Explorer 16rx
(http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...orer_16_rx.jpg), both

16
ft Royalex boats. We are carrying a lot of gear, but also need
maneuverability in swift water.



On a trip last year, some friends brought a SOAR 16 ft inflatable boat
(http://www.soar1.com/soar_16.htm). I was extremely impressed with how
forgiving it was on rocks and its handling in some rapids that we in the
Royalex boats needed to line. It's also self bailing which of course

helps
when we take on some water in the middle of a run. The downside is, it's
more expensive, and although SOAR claims it has a cargo capacity of 17 +
cubic feet, it certainly carried less gear than the thin hulled Old Towns
and Mad Rivers. I've also been told that being an inflatable, they are
slugs in a headwind, something we invariably get a day or two of on any
trips.



My choice is coming down to the Appalachian and the SOAR 16. I'd like to
hear any recommendations on the boats, as well as necessary accessories

for
either one. I also sea kayak so I have the usual stuff, PFDs, dry bags,
etc. For accessories I'm thinking more along the lines of seat upgrades,
expedition repair kits, etc.



Thanks in advance.



pjb


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net




  #5   Report Post  
Old May 23rd 05, 01:49 AM
pjbphd
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Sorry for the delay in responding. After the first response came in there
was a lag time before others. I had assumed no one else would be responding
and didn't check the group for about a week. Anyway, thanks to all who did
reply. You all seem to be in agreement on the Appalachian versus SOAR.



As for the Rio Yaqui, it's a great river. We saw about 40 pairs of black
hawks, some grey hawks, bald eagles, peregrine falcons, and one morning even
woke up to military macaws flying over. However, it requires some serious
logistical work and a fluency in Spanish helps immensely. Let me 'splain.



We drive from Tucson and if going directly cross at Douglas/ Aqua Prieta.
You can et to Granados in a day from Tucson. We actually put in on the Rio
Bavispe near the town of Granados in Sonora. From there we float down past
the Bacadehuachi and when the Bavispe meets the Aros, it officially becomes
the Yaqui. (All those spellings are probably incorrect - I am not the
fluent Spanish speaker in my group!). We continue to float down until we
cross a new highway bridge outside of the town of Sauharipa. All in all it's
about an 80 mile float. If I recall we put in late on a Monday and took out
about noon on Saturday. Here is where it gets tricky. I haven't even been
able to locate decent topos of the area although I think they are now
available in Mexico. I use to use aeronautical maps because they were the
only thing that I could find that covered the area.



First of all, the Bavispe is regulated by an upstream dam. The area has
been in a drought for the past six or seven years. As a result, little
water has come out of the dam. I floated it in 1999 and it was hell. Lot's
of dragging boats and moving rocks to create passages in the cobble. This
year, 2005, they were releasing more water and the inflow from the
Bacadehuachi was up significantly. We still had to drag occasionally, but
only had to portage once. At higher water you won't even need to do that,
but some of the whitewater runs can get pretty technical. The problem is
you need to have someone familiar with the area to let you know if they'll
be releasing water when you want to float.



You also need to be totally self-contained before you leave the U.S. The
locals not only don't have any boat supplies, most have never seen the river
downstream from where they live. There are some ranches along the way, but
only one or two roads. When my friend first went down it in the early 90s,
everyone in Granados begged him not to go because they all said he'd die.
When they realized he was going anyway, the all started to pray for him.
Even this last trip, we were told by several different people about an 80
foot waterfall. Never saw it and I think I'd remember if I did!



Also, beware of metal strainers! We had to lift at least four barb wire
fences that crossed the river and slide the boats under them.



Finally, you need to arrange both a place to store vehicles in Sauharipa and
someone to shuttle your vehicles from Granados to Sauharipa. This is not
generally a problem because the locals are very friendly and accommodating.
In fact this year, we arrived in Sauharipa at about 8:00 pm and asked the
Police if they knew of a safe place where we could leave our trucks the next
day. They let us leave them at the Police station and even agreed to pick
us up at the bridge the following Saturday. Of course we tipped them when
we got out. In Granados, it was the same deal. We paid some locals a days
wages and gas to follow a couple of our vehicles to Sauharipa and bring our
two drivers back to Granados.



This is getting long but I'll leave one last anecdote. As mentioned, we now
take out at a new bridge over the Yaqui. In years past before the bridge
was built, we used to take out a few miles up stream at a ferry crossing
where we'd leave our trucks. When we finished we'd drive onto the ferry and
have our trucks pulled across the river by hand. It was amusing and
frightening at the same time!



Hope this helps.



pjbphd
--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd @ cox dot net









"Charles d'Autremont" wrote in message
...
Yep, the SOAR is a slug on fla****er and windy days. This can be
significantly improved by gluing a plug in the floor pressure relief
valve.

Basically it is like paddling an air mattress. And yet, and yet! There
are
pluses.

Much more forgiving. I have paddled one in Grand Canyon and probably
would
not paddle the Old Town down there.

A big plus is that there is now a nifty rowing rig for this boat which
makes
it like an old fashioned cataract canoe.

It fits in my plane.

It goes on the airlines. Put it in a golf bag.

Perfect? No. Good solo self support boat on the San Juan, Desolation,
etc.
Yep.

Pump is a pain, but so is a wrap.

Tell me about the Yaqui. I too live in the southwest.

best,

Chuck

"pjbphd" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
I'm trying to make a decision on a canoe purchase and I hope someone in
this
group can offer some advice and perhaps opinions.



I live and canoe rivers in the southwest United States and northwest
Mexico.
Places like the Green, San Juan, and Yaqui Rivers. I'm usually out for a
week, give or take a day, and with one or two other two person boats in
our
parties. As you can imagine, rivers here vary considerably depending
upon
the water year and other factors. We generally run up to class three
rapids
and often have to drag boats over rocks in some shallow reaches. We also
occasionally T-bone a boulder or two while on the water. The conditions
can
be hard on canoes.



In the past I've used Old Town Appalachians
(http://www.otccanoe.com/canoes_appalachian.php) and Mad River
Revelations,
which I think has been replaced by the Explorer 16rx
(http://www.madrivercanoe.com/zoom_bo...orer_16_rx.jpg), both
16
ft Royalex boats. We are carrying a lot of gear, but also need
maneuverability in swift water.



On a trip last year, some friends brought a SOAR 16 ft inflatable boat
(http://www.soar1.com/soar_16.htm). I was extremely impressed with how
forgiving it was on rocks and its handling in some rapids that we in the
Royalex boats needed to line. It's also self bailing which of course
helps
when we take on some water in the middle of a run. The downside is, it's
more expensive, and although SOAR claims it has a cargo capacity of 17 +
cubic feet, it certainly carried less gear than the thin hulled Old Towns
and Mad Rivers. I've also been told that being an inflatable, they are
slugs in a headwind, something we invariably get a day or two of on any
trips.



My choice is coming down to the Appalachian and the SOAR 16. I'd like to
hear any recommendations on the boats, as well as necessary accessories
for
either one. I also sea kayak so I have the usual stuff, PFDs, dry bags,
etc. For accessories I'm thinking more along the lines of seat upgrades,
expedition repair kits, etc.



Thanks in advance.



pjb


--
Too many spams have forced me to alter my email. If you wish to email me
directly please send messages to pjbphd at cox dot net








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