You're quite right, I read "not just for beginners" as "just not for
beginners".

And you've correctly identified that I am a little worried about this
sort of thing, since I read an article about preventing shoulder
injuries, where the author said this rolling up off the bottom is one
way to dislocate a shoulder. He said he would write another article
about how to prevent that, but it hasn't appeared yet. I really really
don't want to dislocate a shoulder.

Bernie

"Bernie Inakayak" wrote in message
ups.com...
You're quite right, I read "not just for beginners" as "just not for
beginners".

And you've correctly identified that I am a little worried about this
sort of thing, since I read an article about preventing shoulder
injuries, where the author said this rolling up off the bottom is one
way to dislocate a shoulder. He said he would write another article
about how to prevent that, but it hasn't appeared yet. I really really
don't want to dislocate a shoulder.

You could dislocate your shoulder putting a jacket on...

If you think about the action involved in rolling and that sweep out and
down, it is a very short step to sweeping it too far back and everything
going per shaped anyway. I've known a few people pull back and shoulder
muscles when rolling and getting it wrong.

I'd imagine that in punting the danger would really be in flowing water,
where your paddle stuck in the bed of the river/ lake/ sea, remains fixed
and your boat and you get swept forwards placing your shoulder in a
dangerous position. The usual motto applies, if it hurts stop doing it. In
this case, if it starts hurting, let go. On a river if you go over in 2
feet of water and can't get back up, there is a good chance you could lose a
few teeth - at least. I'd try punting.

Ewan Scott

Yes, I suppose I could dislocate a shoulder putting a jacket on, but on
the other hand I never have, never felt close to it, whereas when I am
surfing I do feel a fair bit of force on my shoulder. I read an article
about this by one Wayne Horovitz, and I wrote to him asking what his
technique is for righting yourself in shallow water, but he hasn't
responded yet.

I will certainly have a serious go at punting next time I am in the
soup. I might try it in the baths tomorrow, if they will let me in the
baby pool!

Thanks Ewan

Bernie Inakayak wrote:

I will certainly have a serious go at punting next time I am in the
soup.

Not something I've ever made a conscious decision to do, it's just I've
found the bottom, there's this big pole in my hand... it just seemed the
obvious and natural thing to do!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Ah, but in my admittedly limited experience of kayaking, the obvious
and natural thing to do is invariably wrong!

"Bernie Inakayak" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ah, but in my admittedly limited experience of kayaking, the obvious
and natural thing to do is invariably wrong!

I think what Peter is saying is that when you attempt to roll, and fail, and
your paddle finds the bottom, and it is shallower than you thought, a punt
is the natural reaction. It would not be wise to rely on punting - but as an
option when all else has failed, it certainly beats the pants off exiting
the boat :-) As a corollary, it is not outwith the bounds of possibility
that you punt off a soft base, and your paddle jams and either hauls you
back in, or you right yourself and find that your paddle is waving at you
from its wedged position as you drift downstream :-)

It happened to me once, and I was fortunate that I got grounded a little
downstream and my paddle eventually caught up with me.I'm not brave enough
to do rapids without a paddle!

Ewan Scott

Ewan Scott wrote:

I think what Peter is saying is that when you attempt to roll, and fail, and
your paddle finds the bottom, and it is shallower than you thought, a punt
is the natural reaction.

Exactly! I have never set off with the specific intention of
punting off the bottom, except once when I was in about 6" of water
coming into land (it didn't work, rather pathetically!)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Bernie Inakayak wrote:

And you've correctly identified that I am a little worried about this
sort of thing, since I read an article about preventing shoulder
injuries, where the author said this rolling up off the bottom is one
way to dislocate a shoulder.

I'm quite sure it is. OTOH, when I do a punt/pole roll I'm on autopilot
and I doubt I'm alone, and furthermore the case that while a dislocated
shoulder would be Very Bad, it's not nearly as Very Bad as breathing
seawater would be ;-/

He said he would write another article
about how to prevent that, but it hasn't appeared yet. I really really
don't want to dislocate a shoulder.

My take on how not to do that... practice practice practice, while
keeping a close eye on your shoulders. I've not dislocated one yet
(touch formica) but it was the case that early on in my rolling career
when I tended to use more brute force and ignorance than technique I did
strain some muscles in my right shoulder and had to lay off the pool
sessions for a while. As I've got more experienced I very clearly use
less power and more technique, which will help those shoulders stay
where they're meant to be.

My "rolls in anger" have not been as good as my pre-setup practice
rolls, not surprisingly. But they're still much better than they were.
The longer I'm under and the closer to bailing out I feel I am the
sloppier the technique tends to be, which is also not hugely surprising...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/