As it happens I am not a coach.

I used to be a L2 but I let my FA lapse and have never done any of these
new fangled update things - because I don't coach anymore. Really should
refresh the FA.

I was a little surprised at Mike's initial post because I thought he had
more respect for the Leny than came out in the post - I still think he
does. Our difference of opinion was really over whether it is worth
trying to scrape down at stupidly low levels rather than grading it at
that level (which probably hasn't come out in my post), I just wouldn't
bother to grade it but would still think it's not what someone looking
for a grade 1/2 river trip is interested in. I haven't seen the Leny in
the summer, but I find low rocky rivers to be physically quite tiring in
a way that grade 2 isn't to my way of thinking - that's not to say it
would be difficult to find a safe route down them.

As for this whole business of throwing qualifications around, I think
you're both off the wall with that! The vast majority of coaches are too
busy coaching to have enough experience of whitewater for me to pay them
any attention when they start trying to tell me about whitewater. That
doesn't mean I don't know some good coaches that are also fantastic
whitewater paddlers, just that the 2 things don't have to go together.
As for Broooz' comment about considering someone of L4 qualification or
equal ability is suitable to guide something like the Leny, I totally
disagree. L4 is not about river guiding, I know loads of paddlers who
could very safely lead/guide on much harder water than the Leny but have
nowhere near the coaching abilities of a L4 coach. I just wish everyone
was able to spot the significant difference between coaching and river
running. Come to think of it every time we do a new river (whether it be
in Scotland or abroad) we are guiding ourselves and none of us have the
abilities of a L4 coach, if everyone needed a coach in the trip when
doing a new river no-ne would ever do anything different! It would make
more sense to find someone local to run the river with if you aren't
sure of your ability to read it.

I'm always uncomfortable with grading discussions as different
experience leads to different opinions. As such I don't want to apply
grades to the Leny - it doesn't push me like I expect from grade 4, in
fact I play on it - I'll point out that the hardest bits are the falls
and the S-bend, and that generally speaking it is harder above the falls
noting that the S-bend is actually below the falls. I thought
recommending it when Ewan used it as an example of what he didn't want
to do was odd, I don't consider bumping over ledges and hauling my boat
round/over rocks as what a grade 1/2 paddle is all about, even if there
is not enough power to make the run a whitewater proposition!

Anyway, I think it's time to put the handbags away! You're both starting
to look like idiots and I'm concerned that by joining in my reputation
is going to get even lower :-)

JIM

Mike Buckley wrote:

Broooz wrote in message
news:YAP2b.5107$we2.49008734@news-

I am a currently active kayak (inland) coach as well as being a lapsed A4
assessor and I seem to recall Jim being a L3 coach. I assume you are not

a

L3 coach from your comments here and elsewhere. If you are a L3 coach

then

you weren't assessed by anyone who was trained in modern assessment
techniques. Because a key criteria for passing L3 coach is having the
ability to recognise when you might be wrong, learn from others or at

least

consult with others to check out the validity of your approach.


As it happens, I am a coach.