I'd really like to hear more about the details specific and germane to
the Miami park problem.

Could you post a mapquest link to the spot in question, or an overhead
image?

Any luck spinning up a dialogue w/ the park board?

etc.

Ob paddling: i got about 120 miles paddling my yak on the Il. Fox River
between Geneva and St. Charles and north. Well worth the small expense
to buy a cheap yak. I launch from a park a block away and they don't
mind at all.

Ob cycling: might be time to start shoveling and plowing the river trail!

..max

--
the part of
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

"The ice is melting but the problem is ignored"

"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change."
-Charles Darwin

If it were to be an animal it would be doomed. But wait, maybe it is,
what, a warmongering lion, a hungry dinosaur?

Keep the SUVs rolling and the war going so the beast is fed. What an
unromantic way for humanity to end, huh?


Group Passes on Addressing Global Warming

By BART CAMERON, Associated Press Writer

REYKJAVIK, Iceland - Although faced with fresh evidence of global
warming, the United States and other members the Arctic Council on
Wednesday failed to make any recommendations to combat a problem most
scientists say is causing sea ice to melt and temperatures to rise.

The council met to consider a new scientific report suggesting the
Arctic is warming up much faster than the rest of the planet.

Some delegates on the council, a respected international panel that
advises governments on Arctic issues, seemed to blame their group's
inaction on America's rejection of the Kyoto Protocol (news - web
sites), which requires industrial nations to reduce emissions of
greenhouse gases. The Bush administration prefers voluntary measures
to save the environment.

"We no sooner leave the science proper than we enter into politics,"
said Bryndis Kjartansdottir, speaking on behalf of the Icelandic
ministry which chaired the one-day meeting.

The study, compiled by 300 scientists and released earlier this month,
said the Arctic is particularly vulnerable to warming from industrial
greenhouse gases. One reason is that when snow and ice melt, the
exposed, bare ground absorbs more heat.

It projects that some animals could become extinct and people living
in the region could be threatened by the thinning sea ice, melting
glaciers and thawing permafrost.

Sea ice in the Arctic has already decreased about 8 percent in 30
years, resulting in the loss of 386,100 square miles of sea ice,
according to the report.

Delegates said the findings will help inform governments about global
warming, but declined to make any specific recommendations in a
declaration adopted Wednesday.

Paula Dobriansky, the U.S. under secretary of global affairs, told the
council's closing news conference that she was happy with that
decision. She said America's participation in the council is just one
part of the Bush administration's $5.2 billion spent for environmental
projects such as renewable energies.

But anger from other delegates over the U.S. position on global
warming seemed evident during the news conference, particularly the
Bush Administration's rejection of the Kyoto Protocol in 2001.

The U.N.-sponsored accord, which was negotiated in 1997 in Kyoto,
Japan, requires industrial nations to reduce emissions of greenhouse
gases below 1990 levels.

When Finnish Foreign Minister Erkki Tuomioja said, "It is the best
possible declaration that could be adopted today," other delegates
exploded in laughter.

The council is comprised of eight nations --Canada, Denmark, Finland,
Iceland, Norway, Russia, Sweden and the United States-- and six
indigenous peoples of the Arctic, including the Saami Peoples of
Norway and Finland and the Inuit Circumpolar Conference.

http://committed.to/justiceforpeace

Good point.....what can be done?

Many things. For one, stop driving the SUV to the corner store....

But really THE PROBLEM IS POLITICAL. Dozens of good ideas are sitting
out there, but the problem is ignored....

"Whither capitalism, now that the communist dragon is slain?"

Well, history tells us that the dragon wasn't the only problem. The
stupid dinosaur sticks to his old ways refusing anything new. 'Natural
Capitalism' is a book that puts forth such ideas. But I'm afraid the
dinosaur must be controlled and put on a diet--or else get rid
of--before anything happens.

The Economist (Nov. 13, 1999):
"Much of what the authors argue for is sensible, and certainly
desirable. But what makes this book worth reading is the fact that the
authors have taken as first principles for their Utopia the harsh
truths of Darwinian capitalism: individuals and companies act in their
self interest, and markets guide that impulse through prices."

http://www.natcap.org/sitepages/pid9.php

Max wrote in message ...
I'd really like to hear more about the details specific and germane to
the Miami park problem.

Could you post a mapquest link to the spot in question, or an overhead
image?

Here's the map (I hope it works)...

(I'd come down 18 st, but now I have to walk 3 times farther and
launch at a more dangerous place)

http://www.smartpages.com/cityguides...yType=&Radius=


Any luck spinning up a dialogue w/ the park board?

I did talk with them over the phone, and they were reluctant to
consider any options. After that I send them a copy of these posts but
they never reply.

etc.

Ob paddling: i got about 120 miles paddling my yak on the Il. Fox River
between Geneva and St. Charles and north. Well worth the small expense
to buy a cheap yak. I launch from a park a block away and they don't
mind at all.

Ob cycling: might be time to start shoveling and plowing the river trail!

.max

Have fun out there!

Where I am there are islands out there that are a real getaway. They
used to be DILAPIDATED but last time were clean.

"DonQuijote1954" wrote in message
om...
Max wrote in message
...
I'd really like to hear more about the details specific and germane to
the Miami park problem.

Could you post a mapquest link to the spot in question, or an overhead
image?

Here's the map (I hope it works)...

(I'd come down 18 st, but now I have to walk 3 times farther and
launch at a more dangerous place)

http://www.smartpages.com/cityguides...yType=&Radius=

This isn't some little park lake like I imagined you were describing.
Although I'm not familiar with your put-in point, any boat launch ramp
should be as available to kayaks as any other craft. If you are launching
from a non-ramp site, walk the three blocks or drive to a public ramp and be
done with it. You are so lucky to have this wonderful place to paddle.

In Colorado, we have a great deal of compassion for the homeless who have
hard and shortened lives. Typically, the homeless are struggling with
mental illness and are difficult to help although many try.

Of course, kayaking and the homeless have nothing to do with each other
except to distract the officials from your issue with them. Gratitude is
the antidote for resentment and the map seems to point to a lot to be
grateful for.

Happy Thanksgiving.

--
Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
Garden Kinder CDs
http://www.jobird.com/cd/gardenkinderhome.html

"Joanne" wrote in message nk.net...
This isn't some little park lake like I imagined you were describing.
Although I'm not familiar with your put-in point, any boat launch ramp
should be as available to kayaks as any other craft. If you are launching
from a non-ramp site, walk the three blocks or drive to a public ramp and be
done with it. You are so lucky to have this wonderful place to paddle.

The only park with a canoe ramp is two miles away, but takes a car and
then be limited by the closing hours. Limitations, limitations,
limitations...

And the next best choice is kind of dangerous and difficult.
Surrounding areas are all monopolized by the lions. What's left?

In Colorado, we have a great deal of compassion for the homeless who have
hard and shortened lives. Typically, the homeless are struggling with
mental illness and are difficult to help although many try.

You must have been raised into accepting the homeless as normal but I
have not. I'd like to remind you they are the symptom of a jungle. A
few that have it all (private marines and all), others that are left
behind and discarded like animals (the homeless), and a majority who
got no place in between. It's a jungle out there...

Of course, kayaking and the homeless have nothing to do with each other
except to distract the officials from your issue with them. Gratitude is
the antidote for resentment and the map seems to point to a lot to be
grateful for.

The things I have to be grateful were created by NATURE, but are
quickly disappearing thanks to the relentless attack by motorboats and
the careless dumping, so a few can have fun.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Likewise. Thanks Mother Nature!

Originally posted by Rickk
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

Oh no, it's only ice falling!

"oohhhh...dead Jews and Americans!....oohhh...ohhhh...almost
there...ohhh...right there!...that's the spot...deeeeaddd
Jews...ovens....ohhhh-dead Jews! Be-headed Americans! OHHH! OHHH!
YES!!!!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!"

But don't blame all Americans and Jews for it, only a few of them--the
lions so to speak. Actually the Jewish kibbutz present the best hope
to Stupid Unnecessary Vehicles and other stupid things out there...

The Greening of the Kibbutz
Environmentalists hope to restore the kibbutz movement to its former
place on the leading edge of social innovation
by Jan Martin Bang

Imagine a string of villages, settled over the last twenty five years
by young people from all over the world, inspired by the ideals of
building a new society. A cooperative society, not using money,
trusting each other, each village having unique characteristics,
owning all things in common, bringing up their children in a new
educational system, practicing democracy at a grass roots, village
level. In short, building a new type of culture.

Doesn't that sound inspiring? Can such a thing exist? Is this just a
dream? A utopia, no place?

(snip)

The task of the Green Kibbutz Group became quite clear to me, to find
this concern in every kibbutz in the country, and nurture it, helping
it along to make the kibbutz movement once again a leading social
experiment. Where modern consumerism and capitalism armed with the
latest technology are creating a wasteland unfit for human habitation,
we have a task to create a new society, one which will use the
technology available to us, in a spirit of cooperation, to create
communities which will be sustainable and live lightly on the land.

http://www.ru.org/artkibb.html

... you all are going to have to excuse me but I am 55 years old and for as
long as I can remember I have been told by numerous pundits that
civilization especially western civilization is about to go bust and
self-destruct. First it was by all-out nuclear war - I also can remember
being told we would run out of crude oil by 2000 - then it was the coming
ice age - and now we all are going to roast in our own juices with global
warming and the runaway greenhouse effect. Sorry if I sound jaded & cynical
but a ton of money has been and will be made predicting the end of the
world.

Personally I think if we snuff ourselves it will come from the small
microbial end of things. Probably with good & benign intentions somebody
will alter the genes of some lifeform and do irrepairable harm to most
probably the food chain and then we all can kiss our modern civilization
goodbye. Just my 2 cents worth.

The fact that we were saved by a hair (remember the Cuban Missile
Crisis) doesn't mean that the wolf wasn't there. But now we have more
wolves, predictable and unpredictable. The issue at hand is the
predictable one. It's not a matter of "if" but of "when." We are
unwilling and uncapable to change and the problem is passed on to
future generations. The other issue is the unpredictable one. As more
people and governments--not always with the best intentions--lay their
hands on WMDs and more conflicts are provoked, something will happen
sooner or later...

There's a dialog in 'The Matrix' in which one of the humanoids says we
human beings are the only living beings, outside of a virus, to
destroy its own home. Maybe we will meet our own medicine.

Well, for those who can't read ice melting as a sign of Earth warming,
here's another sign of environmental catastrophe: satellite pictures
of the Amazon. If that is not clear enough...

Satellites show human destruction of Amazon rainforest
By Andrew Hay in Brasilia
November 27, 2004

Getting patchy
About half of Brazil's original Amazon rainforest has been occupied by
man, deforested or used for industry, and its destruction is worse
than government figures show, an environmental group says.

A study using satellite photographs shows that land occupation and
deforestation covers about 47 per cent of the world's largest jungle,
an area bigger than the continental United States, the Brazilian
non-government organisation Imazon said.

The respected group has received funding from a number of sources
including the Ford Foundation and the German and US governments.

While the Government says only 16 per cent of Brazil's Amazon has been
deforested, the Imazon study indicates a much larger area is
threatened or being destroyed by man, said one of the researchers,
Carlos Souza.

"This shows the real pressure on the forest," said Mr Souza, who used
satellite images up to 2002 to produce the study.

Deforestation of the Amazon by ranchers, farmers and loggers hit its
second-highest level last year.

The Government says it is using satellite monitoring, reserves and
better law enforcement to slow destruction of an area that is home to
10 per cent of the world's fresh water and 30 per cent of plant and
animal species.

The centre-left Government is particularly concerned about an "arc of
deforestation" that marks an agricultural and settlement frontier
sweeping from east to west across the lower, southern half of the
Amazon.

Imazon said its survey showed that reserves must be created deep
within the forest, and on the frontier of Brazil's portion of the
Amazon - about two-thirds of the rainforest.

"Vast areas of forest that were previously considered empty
(especially in the north and west areas) show signs of growing human
pressure, especially from forest fires," the Imazon study said.

Environment Ministry officials were not immediately available to
comment on the survey.

About 70 per cent of Brazil's tropical savannah - once the size of the
Amazon - has been deforested to create the world's biggest
grain-growing area, environmental groups say.

The Amazon will go the same way if agriculture, business and
government use it as a resource to fuel economic growth, the
Environment Minister, Marina Silva, said last week as she opened an
environmental police academy.

Reuters