On 8-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:

Different people have different styles and it's not his place to admonish anyone for their own reasons and
suggest his way is the only valid viewpoint. He is not the god of paddling.

_NO_ONE_ makes a scratchproof canoe or kayak. Get over it!

Mike

Te,

Try your local surfboard shop. They'll be able to re-gel it.

Ken B.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:03:30 -0500, "Te Canaille" wrote:

Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel coat
exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an
amateur to attempt. I figure the best answer is to have a pro do it but I'm not sure where to begin looking. Thanks, any feedback
will be welcomed.

Te Canaille


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Hey Ken -

Great idea ! If I ever get close to one I'll give it a go. :-))
Seriously, thanks but unfortunately I'm a long way from any shops like that.

Te

wrote in message ...
Te,

Try your local surfboard shop. They'll be able to re-gel it.

Ken B.

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 09:03:30 -0500, "Te Canaille" wrote:

Anyone out there had any experience replacing a gel coat exterior ? I've got a glass on kevlar hull that has a light blue gel
coat
exterior that I'd like to replace with a white gel coat. I hear it's very tricky, lots of work, and usually disastrous for an
amateur to attempt. I figure the best answer is to have a pro do it but I'm not sure where to begin looking. Thanks, any feedback
will be welcomed.

Te Canaille


Apply ROT13 to address to reply

Re-gelling a boat is a royal pain. I have re-gelled some park benches
for a local park, and redid a very old beat up powerboat, and it's
never going to look good.

If you have some scratches in the boat that need to be polished out,
600 grit and polishing compound will remove them (at the price of
thinly wearing down your gel).

If the boat has chips, I would fix the chips and again polish it out.

But the origional question is how to change a boat from blue to white:

* Note: This is how I did it in the 90's, EPA rules may make this
method illegal since you release tons of vapors into the air. Check
first

Repair any chips and cracks in the blue gel (repair them with white) -
hull needs to be good before you try anything

Remove the gunwales and external hardware - otherwise it will get all
messy

Sand the entire surface with 100 grit sandpaper, followed by 220 -
makes it smooth and gives a rough surface to bond to

wipe with acetone, then a tack cloth - removes any oil, dirt, dust

Mix gel with surfacing agent and acetone - agent allows the gel to
cure hard, acetone thins it for spraying

Pour in paint sprayer - make sure sprayer has pressure adjustments so
you can regulate pressure and volume.

in a very well ventalated area, spray the boat with gel until the
entire surface is covered

You will have a re-gelled boat

Now why don't people do this?

First, it will look horrible. The spray, no matter how fine will
orange peel or splatter. That is the nature of gel.

Second, the surfacing agent is a type of wax. When you go to repair
future scratches, guess what. The lovely white gel you sprayed on is
contaminated with wax and your repair won't want to stick.

Third, when you go to wet sand your white gel, and bruise through to
blue, it isn't easy to fix, and the repair may not hold.

If you don't add surfacing agent, your gel will not cure hard, it will
be sticky forever (or until it grabs enough dirt to look really bad)

You will add 6-10 pounds to the boat.

But it can be done. It's just not a good idea.

- Eric

Thanks Eric. That's pretty much what I need to know. Sounds like I won't be going in that direction. This is a hull that could used
in clinics, at demos, in competition, and seen at some shows so needs to look good. It's been used on a lot of rocky creeks over the
years and although in my opinion a gel coated boat should not be, but it was fun to paddle and now I thought to salvage it for other
uses. As you point out even a new coating will not look all that hot, so reckon I'll just continue as before. I'm having fun either
way. Thanks.

Te Canaille

"Eric Nyre" wrote in message om...
Re-gelling a boat is a royal pain. I have re-gelled some park benches
for a local park, and redid a very old beat up powerboat, and it's
never going to look good.

If you have some scratches in the boat that need to be polished out,
600 grit and polishing compound will remove them (at the price of
thinly wearing down your gel).

If the boat has chips, I would fix the chips and again polish it out.

But the origional question is how to change a boat from blue to white:

* Note: This is how I did it in the 90's, EPA rules may make this
method illegal since you release tons of vapors into the air. Check
first

Repair any chips and cracks in the blue gel (repair them with white) -
hull needs to be good before you try anything

Remove the gunwales and external hardware - otherwise it will get all
messy

Sand the entire surface with 100 grit sandpaper, followed by 220 -
makes it smooth and gives a rough surface to bond to

wipe with acetone, then a tack cloth - removes any oil, dirt, dust

Mix gel with surfacing agent and acetone - agent allows the gel to
cure hard, acetone thins it for spraying

Pour in paint sprayer - make sure sprayer has pressure adjustments so
you can regulate pressure and volume.

in a very well ventalated area, spray the boat with gel until the
entire surface is covered

You will have a re-gelled boat

Now why don't people do this?

First, it will look horrible. The spray, no matter how fine will
orange peel or splatter. That is the nature of gel.

Second, the surfacing agent is a type of wax. When you go to repair
future scratches, guess what. The lovely white gel you sprayed on is
contaminated with wax and your repair won't want to stick.

Third, when you go to wet sand your white gel, and bruise through to
blue, it isn't easy to fix, and the repair may not hold.

If you don't add surfacing agent, your gel will not cure hard, it will
be sticky forever (or until it grabs enough dirt to look really bad)

You will add 6-10 pounds to the boat.

But it can be done. It's just not a good idea.

- Eric

wrote:

Does anyone know a good fill material for flecked gell goat? I have a
very old boat with literally 100s of pits some a 1/2 inch. It looks
like maybe the gel coat blistered. I tried filling the larger ones
with a gel coat mix, but frankly its way too much work for this old
wreck. But I'm attached to the boat. I'm looking for perhaps some sort
of easy filler that I can epoxy paint later when I do the whole
bottom.

I would suggest sanding it down, filling the worst areas with repair
filler (don't bother with gelcoat), then applying a high build primer.
Sand/prime/sand it until it's smooth enough for paint, then hit it with
your finish color.

KAYAKFAN wrote:

After "dinging" my boat, I went to my local shop manager who had managed
composite at Wilderness Systems.a pro. I could have done it, but didn't want
to get in the business. He was doing me a favor.

I developed a stress crack from tightening too hard on my vehicle. He says
this is not uncommon with composites. I forget if he said that it was more
common with kevlar than fiberglass.

It seems if you are not careful, you may leave tiny hairs when you sand kevlar
that show through the gelcoat or resin. These hairs tend to wick moisture to
the kevlar mat.

He did both interior and exterior work. He built up the inside using small,
then medium, then large layers. To smooth the last layer, he used a minicell
block as a sponge over plastic sheeting.

Same thing with the outside. It had to be a particular kind of gelcoat,
something with the right base.

That's what I know. If you want to get good at this, risk mistakes. If you
want to paddle, pay someone.

Mike Goodman
High Point, NC

Te Canaille wrote:

Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp.

Honestly, if I ever saw an instructor with a super shiny boat, I'd go
elsewhere. Instructing, by its very nature, is hard on equipment. I
don't see how an instructor could keep up with dealing with daily dings
and scratches, and keep a boat looking pristine. For that matter, I
don't know why one would want to. Nothing personal, but it strikes me
that your priorities (or those of the instructor involved) may be a bit
out of line. I have to agree with the others here, form follows function.

Brian :

Thanks for your opinion and view of paddlesport. Maybe you need to expand your horizons a bit. Paddlesport includes a wide spectrum
of instruction, not just moving water and rocky bottoms. There are many kinds of instruction that does not involve scratching hulls
and being hard on equipment. In fact, more of that than not. They perhaps are not part of your world or your venue. I've been around
this for a long while and realize that many people tend to believe that their milieu is the only thing going and it is to them.
Most instruction does not involve basic river or white water, but is done in calm venues. I started out instructing moving and
whitewater and felt as though this was "the paddling world". Once I got off of rivers and went on to other things, I fianlly
realized that worldwide, most hulls are paddled on fla****er without rocks and hulls can and should be kept in good shape. I still
teach in venues in which I expect a hull to be scratched and accept that, but also teach in some where that does not happen and a
scratched up hull is a sign of poor control. Sounds to me as though you've had exposure to only certain types of venues and your
priorities are a bit narrow.

Te Canaille


"Brian Nystrom" wrote in message ...
Te Canaille wrote:

Fact is this hull is a loaner used in fla****er instruction clinics and it needs to look sharp.

Honestly, if I ever saw an instructor with a super shiny boat, I'd go
elsewhere. Instructing, by its very nature, is hard on equipment. I
don't see how an instructor could keep up with dealing with daily dings
and scratches, and keep a boat looking pristine. For that matter, I
don't know why one would want to. Nothing personal, but it strikes me
that your priorities (or those of the instructor involved) may be a bit
out of line. I have to agree with the others here, form follows function.

On 9-Jun-2004, "Te Canaille" wrote:

a scratched up hull is a sign of poor control

An unscratched hull is a sign of someone who doesn't take his
kayak anywhere. Or a paddler who has his priorities wrong.
At the infamous kayaking school in Anglesey, they have paddlers
do a surf launch and landing on rocky beaches, just to get folks
away from the fear of putting the kayak into real life situations.
Flat water and lovely sandy beaches represent a small fraction
of real paddling venues.

Gel coat gets scratched and is easy to repair. Most of the folks
I know that think like you paddle expensive strippers. Those
of us that paddle real kayaks (and not showboats) don't worry
about minor dings and scratches. That gets in the way of real
paddling.

I'm teaching a session on gel coat repair in a couple of weeks
(June 26 to be precise, around 9:30AM) Parry Island in Georgian
Bay - where sandy beaches are usually man-made. If you want
to know how to deal with reality, drop by.

your priorities are a bit narrow.

This from a guy that thinks his kayak's looks are important.

Mike