Hello,

I always wanted to know one thing about the handling of brases for square
yards:

On a tall sail ship of three masts, bark rigging consists of two square
rigged masts.
Let´s say each square rigged mast carries 5 sail yards.
Each yard has 10 brases, 5 to the left and 5 to the right.
That makes up 20 brases to handle on the ship.
AFAIK the brases are belayed on deck, on the ships sides.

Now: when this ship is about to make a turn, the yards are trimmed
simultaniously,
and it can be done rather quickly, as I saw - but I did not see the actual
work on deck ...

How do the sailmen handle those 20 brases alltogether on deck ?
How do they move them ? Is there a team technique behind it ?

Sorry for my bad English, I tried my best ...

I would appreciate any comments
Thanks and greeting from Germany.

Jan
(hobby modeller and maritime enthusiast)

"Jan Gelbrich" wrote in message
...
Hello,

I always wanted to know one thing about the handling of brases for square
yards:

On a tall sail ship of three masts, bark rigging consists of two square
rigged masts.
Let´s say each square rigged mast carries 5 sail yards.
Each yard has 10 brases, 5 to the left and 5 to the right.
That makes up 20 brases to handle on the ship.
AFAIK the brases are belayed on deck, on the ships sides.

Now: when this ship is about to make a turn, the yards are trimmed
simultaniously,
and it can be done rather quickly, as I saw - but I did not see the actual
work on deck ...

How do the sailmen handle those 20 brases alltogether on deck ?
How do they move them ? Is there a team technique behind it ?

Sorry for my bad English, I tried my best ...


Hi Jan,

Your English is fine.

I sailed a few times on the Bark Star of India in San Diego. We marked the
braces for their port, starboard, and center positions. Manning for bracing
from a starboard tack to a port tack would be one person each on the port
braces, one person each on the starboard topgallant and royal braces, and as
many as you could grab (3 to 6 each) on the starboard upper top, lower top,
and mainsail braces. On the command "ease port braces, haul away on
starboard", the portside tenders would cast off the port braces to ensure
minimum resistance to the haulers and would ensure to stop the line and make
it fast at the proper mark. At the same time, the haulers on starboard
would heave away on the starboard braces until they were able to bring the
proper marks in to the belaying pins. The haulers on the royal, topgallant
and upper top would need to pace themselves so as not to get ahead of the
lower top and mainsail.

In a tack, you want to brace around quickly, but you only brace one yard at
a time -- first the main and then the fore (after the bow is through the
wind), so you could share crew between the two yards. In a ware, you would
brace both yards together, but slowly as the stern goes through the wind wo
as to keep the sails square to the breeze.

Hope that helps.

-rock-

Looks like you are still waiting for an answer or is my email up the
swannie again?, many large square riggers used Brace winches, usually
Jarvis brace winches which have six tapered drums and one brace winch to
each mast, herzogin cecilie when a sail training ship with Nord DL didnt
have brace winches, the cadets had to haul on them by hand through
snatch blocks fixed to ringbolts in the deck.
Although Harold Underhills plans show Jarvis brace winches on Cecilies
deck it is a mistake, she didnt have them at the time Underhill depicts
the ship without the poop extension that covered the donkey engine, they
may have been fitted later though when she was in service with Gustaf
Ericksons fleet,

regards, Terry

"Terence Lynock" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...


Looks like you are still waiting for an answer or is my email up the
swannie again?, many large square riggers used Brace winches, usually
Jarvis brace winches which have six tapered drums and one brace winch to
each mast, herzogin cecilie when a sail training ship with Nord DL didnt
have brace winches, the cadets had to haul on them by hand through
snatch blocks fixed to ringbolts in the deck.
Although Harold Underhills plans show Jarvis brace winches on Cecilies
deck it is a mistake, she didnt have them at the time Underhill depicts
the ship without the poop extension that covered the donkey engine, they
may have been fitted later though when she was in service with Gustaf
Ericksons fleet,

regards, Terry

Thank You both, really interesting information. I have seen the tilted
winches
in a book, but those kind of illustrations do only show the technologies
installed, but
not how to use them ...
To be honest, I hoped that there maybe more sailmen around here who could
answer to this thread, but this seems to be a rather small group - anyway,
thank You !

greetings,
Jan

The message
from "Jan Gelbrich" contains these words:

Thank You both, really interesting information. I have seen the tilted
winches
in a book, but those kind of illustrations do only show the technologies
installed, but
not how to use them ...


The Jarvis brace winch takes a little understanding in the way it works
and I only understand the basics, there are six tapered barrels one pair
for each yard - lower course, topsail and tgallent as I understand it,
when a spar is swung the amount of rope taken in onto one drum is not
equel to the amount paid out from its sister hence the need for the
tapers, for instance turning the spar to stbd would result in less rope
taken in from the stbd brace than would be paid out to the port brace so
one drum would take in less than its sister would pay out and vice
versa.
Early Jarvis brace winches were hand cranked but later versions could be
geared to a steam donkey engine to assist in hauling the big spars
around, the donkey could also be used for raising spars and many other
jobs, a very useful commodity on board any sailing ship,

regards, Terry

"Terence Lynock MSW" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
The message
from "Jan Gelbrich" contains these words:

Thank You both, really interesting information. I have seen the tilted
winches
in a book, but those kind of illustrations do only show the technologies
installed, but
not how to use them ...


The Jarvis brace winch takes a little understanding in the way it works
and I only understand the basics, there are six tapered barrels one pair
for each yard - lower course, topsail and tgallent as I understand it,
when a spar is swung the amount of rope taken in onto one drum is not
equel to the amount paid out from its sister hence the need for the
tapers, for instance turning the spar to stbd would result in less rope
taken in from the stbd brace than would be paid out to the port brace so
one drum would take in less than its sister would pay out and vice
versa.
Early Jarvis brace winches were hand cranked but later versions could be
geared to a steam donkey engine to assist in hauling the big spars
around, the donkey could also be used for raising spars and many other
jobs, a very useful commodity on board any sailing ship,

regards, Terry

Terry, thank You for this detail !

Maybe this winch was the piece I found
on deck of a Revell model of the
clipper Thermopylae I made long time ago
(at times when PCs were still science fiction).
Maybe I should read some more literature about it ...

BTW: I heard some roumors
that there are plans to rebuild the Thermopylae
again in the UK.

Is that true ?
And would it be realistic to hope for ?
It would be quite expensive to do ...
Most might think it would be enough
to preserve the Cutty Sark ...

Hi Jan,

Maybe this winch was the piece I found
on deck of a Revell model of the
clipper Thermopylae I made long time ago
(at times when PCs were still science fiction).
Maybe I should read some more literature about it ...

I cannot remember Thermopylae ever being fitted with brace winches
unless they were fitted at a later date when in the hands og the
Portuguese and used as a sail training ship, the jarvis winch was only
used on the big square riggers like Pommern, Preussen and others.

BTW: I heard some roumors
that there are plans to rebuild the Thermopylae
again in the UK.

I have heard nothing of this but we do get the odd strange rumour now
and then, there is a project under developement to recreate the Titanic
as a cruise ship, it will look much like the original on the outside but
totally different on the inside and bigger I believe, Cunard has two new
liners coming into service over the next two years, Queen Mary 2 and
Queen Victoria.
QM2 has just had a bad start with 15 people being killed when they fell
20 mtrs into the dry dock when a gangway gave way, she is due for her
maiden voyage in early next year and at around 150,000 tons is the
biggest liner ever built, QV is still fitting out ready for launch but
she is only half the size or thereabouts at 85,000 tons, still bigger
than the old QE and 30,000 tons heavier than the QE2.

And would it be realistic to hope for ?
It would be quite expensive to do ...

Thermopylae was well documented and good plans are available for her in
her tea trade days from a couple of sources, one was David MacGregor
Plans but David died a few weeks back so what will happen to his plans
business I dont know, if she was reconstructed it would probably be with
a steel hull and as a sail training ship.

Most might think it would be enough
to preserve the Cutty Sark ...

Problem with the Sark is that she cant be used for sail training, her
hull is quite weak now and has had strengthening carried out during her
major overhaul that has been going on for over 10 years now, her masts
do not sit on the keel anymore, they sit on steel pins that pass
straight through the keel into the concrete underneath to take the
weight off her hull.
The old lady really is becoming quite fragile these days so can never be
expected to take to the water again, she would have to be ballasted to
keep her up straight and her hull just wouldnt stand loading of 120 tons
of ballast,

regards, Terry