On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 02:42:01 -0500, Eisboch wrote:


http://www.uaw.org/barg/07fact/fact02.php

I'd also point out, that in the last contract, the UAW made
considerable concessions, including assuming health care costs via a
trust, setting up a two-tiered wage scale, and a freeze on wages.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...-uaw-wed_N.htm


I read the first link several times, but could not determine if the 10%
"labor cost" figure includes funding retired members health plans.

The second link gives a clue. I don't think it does. The negotiated
trust fund at GM requires GM to put up an initial 20 something billion
dollars in the trust, plus make up to 20 additional payments of 160
million each to keep it solvent.

Also, look at the distribution of people getting benefits. Retired
employees make up the bulk of the costs, by far.

The auto industry has identified retired health plan benefits payments
as a major, singular reason for the current financial problems.

I have a little bit of a problem understanding the concept that
"everyone is entitled to free healthcare". Please note the word "free"
in that statement. I believe everyone should be entitled and have
access to health care at a cost that is affordable for them. Health
care is a basic human need, just like food and housing, but it's not a
freebie that one gets simply because they exist. I have no problem
paying more for my health plan if I can afford to in order to give
access to health care for someone else who can't afford it, but I don't
think making it "free" for everybody will work. There is no such thing
as "free".

Of course, health care will never be "free", but it's a question of who
will bear the costs. As we have it set up now, it's business. That puts
us at quite a competitive disadvantage in the global market place. I'd
also point out, many who think they are insured, are, only as long as
they are working. Have a long term illness, that puts you out of work,
and it's bye, bye, health insurance. 1/2 of personal bankruptcies, are
illness/medical bill related.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...tcy_study.html


If the costs are placed on the individual, few could survive the economic
catastrophe of a major illness. Personally, I look at universal health
care as one giant health insurance pool, without the 1/3 waste present in
for profit health insurance industry. Of course, it isn't free, but it
is cheaper. We spend over 15% GDP on health care. Most countries with
universal health care spend @10%. Again, that 5% is a competitive
disadvantage on our businesses.