"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Boater wrote:
Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:42:23 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

wrote in message
t...

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to?
In
this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry. If
the
auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession. All of
this, could get real scary, real quick.
This may sound harsh, but I am just about convinced that we are beyond
any form of healthy avenues for recovery.
The reasons are varied and there's plenty of blame to pass around,
including the consumer. At this point though, it just doesn't matter.
Assigning blame doesn't fix the problems.

I think we may just have to bite the bullet, allow Banks, Investment
firms, GM, GMAC, Ford, Ford Motor Credit and Chrysler (whoever they
are now-a-days) to file Chapter 11 bankrupcy, reorganize and start
again. That will unfortunatly cause bankrupcies in many supporting
industrys but they are currently structured to support what exists
now, not as it should be.

Everyone is jumping on the bailout bandwagon. American Express just
filed to become a bank, thereby qualifying for some of the bailout
money to cover bad accounts. That's too much. Enough.

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require
cleaning out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.

Damn straight.


And what is your plan for the millions of workers who will lose their
jobs? Oh...I know...let them all die.

I would start by firing every member of an automaker's management team,
eliminating whatever "equity" the shareholders still have, renegotiating
all existing labor and supplier contracts, and hiring innovative
management that can begin producing world-class energy efficient cars
within two years, even if they have to buy the technology until they can
develop their own.

Screw the investors? I don't think so. Burn all labor contracts.
Fire everybody. Sell the brand an equipment to an automaker who knows how
to do business. Hire back employees that can demonstrate needed skills
and collect the union cards as they enter the work place. Start fresh and
build innovative earth friendly vehicles.

As for the employees that don't get rehired, Americans, except for Obama,
Don't just let our people die. We'll find work for them even if it means
pushing out the illegals.


Maybe they could bend and scrape, cleaning your house or picking your
crops master.


Yup. Someone has to pick the crops and milk the cows. Clean houses for
those who desire it. To far beneath an autoworker to do such a job? Who
said a lifetime career is guaranteed? We do not all work in government.

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:03:38 -0600, wrote:

Like a hurricane every 100 years or so, it is going to require cleaning
out the deadwood before the forests can grow again.



In a climax forest the grounded is littered with dead trees. It takes
about as long for a tree to rot away as it took to grow it. In the
process all the oxygen produced by its growth will be used up, and all
the carbon fixed by it will go back into the atmosphere.


Please. rec.boats is no place for logic.

Eisboch

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:13:00 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

They are probably smarter than that.
They'll move the jobs to Mexico and China.

Fifteen years ago I had a Mercury Tracer. A Mazda, made in Mexico.
Great little car.

Casady

On Nov 13, 12:49*pm, "Don White" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Nov 13, 2:38 am, "Eisboch" wrote:

I don't consider UAW members "slobs", but I agree with his overall
assesment.

I was a bit over the top with that. *I don't really blame the workers,
they're *just taking advantage of the high-paying jobs available to
them. *The UAW is specifically the one to blame here, by forcing the
automakers into paying this kind of money to unskilled workers,
ultimately bringing about the death of the entire American auto
industry.

It's past time to break the unions and come back to reality. *They've
outlived their usefulness, and turned into leeches on society as a
whole.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-

A couple posts ago you were bragging about how well along you and your wife
were in your retirement plans.

Not bragging, just stating facts. I'm doing a larger version of what
my Dad did, since it's almost certain that SS won't be around when I
retire. I'm not depending on anyone, or any goverment, to take care
of me.

I suppose the unionized force should be happy sitting on a park bench
begging for crumbs to eat and a lump of coal to heat their single room
dwelling.

Not at all. They should just live within their means, and be paid a
decent wage for their work. If they want to earn more and have more
financial security, they should do what most do and go to school, get
more education, and ultimately a better paying job.

Twisting a corporation's arm (oops, collective bargaining) for more
and more until they put that corporation under only serves them in the
short term. Once that company can no longer function with the wages
and benefits the union has saddled them with, then no one has a job.
Then they *will* be sitting on that park bench begging for crumbs,
huh?

"Boater" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:38:58 +0000, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if
resolvable) in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at
them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't permanent.
It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto
industry
needs to do right now. Revise business plans, products and
re-negotiate the union contracts under the watchful eye of a
bankruptcy
judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government
"investment" just to keep them in business under their current
organizational structures won't do a damn thing.
I agree.

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to?
In this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry.
If the auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession.
All of this, could get real scary, real quick.

Busting the unions should be a requisite part of any bailout plan.
Otherwise they will be back again in a few years looking for another
handout. It's time we earn from our mistakes and stop repeating them.


This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads aboard a
navy ship?

We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.


No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted, or, in lieu of
that, join up, so I could kill Asians who were not threatening my
country.

I don't think there is person reading this news group that isn't aware of
your cowardice. Why do you keep bringing it up?


Tell me, Jim...what sort of "bravery" is required to go off to a country
not threatening ours, and bomb, shoot up and otherwise destroy it?

Tell that to some who have served in Viet Nam or Iraq. Or any other ground
war.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:10:54 -0500, Jim wrote:

Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:38:58 +0000, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
...

My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if
resolvable) in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at
them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't
permanent. It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto
industry
needs to do right now. Revise business plans, products and
re-negotiate the union contracts under the watchful eye of a
bankruptcy
judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government
"investment" just to keep them in business under their current
organizational structures won't do a damn thing.
I agree.

Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not
to? In this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto
industry. If the auto companies fail, we're talking depression,
not recession. All of this, could get real scary, real quick.

Busting the unions should be a requisite part of any bailout plan.
Otherwise they will be back again in a few years looking for
another handout. It's time we earn from our mistakes and stop
repeating them.


This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads
aboard a navy ship?

We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.


No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted, or, in lieu of
that, join up, so I could kill Asians who were not threatening my
country.

I don't think there is person reading this news group that isn't aware
of your cowardice. Why do you keep bringing it up?


Tell me, Jim...what sort of "bravery" is required to go off to a country
not threatening ours, and bomb, shoot up and otherwise destroy it?

I don't owe you an explanation.
I just can't understand you boasting about being a coward. And then
repeatedly reposting it. Get over it.

Must be something to it. He thought John Kerry was a big hero because he
supposedly 'earned' all those medals in Vietnam.

But I believe your measure of HK's character is spot on.
--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"

D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:38:58 +0000, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if
resolvable) in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars at
them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't permanent.
It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto
industry
needs to do right now. Revise business plans, products and
re-negotiate the union contracts under the watchful eye of a
bankruptcy
judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government
"investment" just to keep them in business under their current
organizational structures won't do a damn thing.
I agree.
Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to?
In this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry.
If the auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not recession.
All of this, could get real scary, real quick.
Busting the unions should be a requisite part of any bailout plan.
Otherwise they will be back again in a few years looking for another
handout. It's time we earn from our mistakes and stop repeating them.

This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads aboard a
navy ship?
We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.

No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted, or, in lieu of
that, join up, so I could kill Asians who were not threatening my
country.
I don't think there is person reading this news group that isn't aware of
your cowardice. Why do you keep bringing it up?

Tell me, Jim...what sort of "bravery" is required to go off to a country
not threatening ours, and bomb, shoot up and otherwise destroy it?

Tell that to some who have served in Viet Nam or Iraq. Or any other ground
war.



I have some old buddies who were in Vietnam. Their thoughts are the same
as mine.

Don White wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
I am going to keep my F150 thank you. Nice ride and pulls a boat and
has 4x4 for the winter. Try that with a pint sized electric car up a
long hill.

Harry had a F-150 not too long ago and often reported in this NG what a
great truck it was.

That's before he sharpened his political correctness.

Now a US made truck is crap because he owns a Japanese model.


Eisboch
I haven't owned an F150 for nearly 10 years. It was a good truck. The
Toyota truck that replaced it was better. I doubt I ever stated the
US-made truck was "crap." I have heard those sorts of allegations,
however, from SW Tom and I believe from you.


Speaking of F-150s...saw an ad in the local paper saying 2008 base trucks
could be had for a few pennies under $14K CDN.
Man...I brought it up but the wife squashed that right away. She's rather
pay twice as much for a Forester or RAV4.



"She's rather"? You really should proofread your posts before you
attack others for their typos.

Do you wear *any* pants in your family, Donnie?

"Boater" wrote in message
...
D.Duck wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
Boater wrote:
Jim wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 11:38:58 +0000, Tom Francis - SWSports wrote:

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:12:16 -0500, "Eisboch"

wrote:


"D.Duck" wrote in message
...
My hope is that the GM/Ford/Chrysler problems are resolved (if
resolvable) in bankruptcy, not throwing more tax payer dollars
at
them.


Duck, I couldn't agree with you more. Chapter 11 isn't
permanent. It
allows for "reorganization" which is exactly what the auto
industry
needs to do right now. Revise business plans, products and
re-negotiate the union contracts under the watchful eye of a
bankruptcy
judge.

Handing them a pile of taxpayer money, calling it a government
"investment" just to keep them in business under their current
organizational structures won't do a damn thing.
I agree.
Tough call. I don't like these bailouts, but can we afford not to?
In this country, 1 in 10 jobs are connected to the auto industry.
If the auto companies fail, we're talking depression, not
recession. All of this, could get real scary, real quick.
Busting the unions should be a requisite part of any bailout plan.
Otherwise they will be back again in a few years looking for
another handout. It's time we earn from our mistakes and stop
repeating them.

This from a guy whose career highlight was cleaning the heads aboard
a navy ship?
We used to send numb-nuts like you all over the ship looking for
replacements for burned out headlights.

No, you didn't. I wasn't dumb enough to get drafted, or, in lieu of
that, join up, so I could kill Asians who were not threatening my
country.
I don't think there is person reading this news group that isn't aware
of your cowardice. Why do you keep bringing it up?

Tell me, Jim...what sort of "bravery" is required to go off to a country
not threatening ours, and bomb, shoot up and otherwise destroy it?

Tell that to some who have served in Viet Nam or Iraq. Or any other
ground war.

I have some old buddies who were in Vietnam. Their thoughts are the same
as mine.

Their thoughts are that the troops do/did not exhibit bravery?

DK wrote:
Don White wrote:
"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"Canuck57" wrote in message
...
I am going to keep my F150 thank you. Nice ride and pulls a boat
and has 4x4 for the winter. Try that with a pint sized electric
car up a long hill.

Harry had a F-150 not too long ago and often reported in this NG
what a great truck it was.

That's before he sharpened his political correctness.

Now a US made truck is crap because he owns a Japanese model.


Eisboch
I haven't owned an F150 for nearly 10 years. It was a good truck. The
Toyota truck that replaced it was better. I doubt I ever stated the
US-made truck was "crap." I have heard those sorts of allegations,
however, from SW Tom and I believe from you.


Speaking of F-150s...saw an ad in the local paper saying 2008 base
trucks could be had for a few pennies under $14K CDN.
Man...I brought it up but the wife squashed that right away. She's
rather pay twice as much for a Forester or RAV4.


"She's rather"? You really should proofread your posts before you
attack others for their typos.

Do you wear *any* pants in your family, Donnie?


What a stench you make, Krueger. Can't you stay in that casket?