For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.



Union labor force maybe.

Small business employees ..... no way.

Eisboch


I doubt it. I frequently go out on organizing calls with union reps, and
the companies and employees we visit are not members of unions.



You call that being *close* to labor?
How about *being* labor for several years .... punching a time clock,
wearing company issued uniforms with your name on the shirt, working with,
eating lunch with, drinking on Friday nights with, etc.?


Maybe we have met.

I'll share a little story with you.

Back when the "Big Dig" was in high gear up here, welders/fabricators were
in short supply for the project.
The local unions started a less than covert recruitment drive to find and
sign up qualified welders wherever they could find them.

We had several good, experienced welder/fabricators at my company. The
supervisor, "Big Ed" was a seasoned veteran, having done his time as a union
welder at the old Fore River Shipyard in Quincy, MA back in the 60's. Big
Ed is nearing retirement but still stands about 6'5" and has forearms the
size of my thighs.

One day someone came into my office and told me there were two union
organizers out in the shop. We had a conventional lobby/reception area
where visitors were supposed to sign in, get a badge and safety glasses, but
these guys had snuck around back and entered through one of the shop
overhead doors.

I entered the shop just in time to see "Big Ed" escorting the two union
dudes out the door. He had both by the back of their belts and was half
dragging, half carrying them out. One guy dropped the folder full of
propaganda he was carrying and another of our guys picked it up and threw it
in a dumpster.

They were handing out information on the local union and job offers for the
Big Dig. I've been told this is not normal practice, and I believe it, but
they tried and didn't get very far.

We lost only one employee to the Big Dig project and he returned a little
over a year later, fed up. We simply could not afford to match the pay and
overtime offered to him by the union.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.D'oh.


Union labor force maybe.
Small business employees ..... no way.
Eisboch



D'oh. We don't meet on the premises, and typically we respond to requests
from employees for a visit. First meetings usually are held at a local
eatery where the employees go for lunch or dinner, or anywhere else
convenient to the place of employment.


Bull**** alert

More like the perimeter of the company's parking lot at the end of the
workday .... *if* they are playing by their own rules.



Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.


Union labor force maybe.

Small business employees ..... no way.

Eisboch

I doubt it. I frequently go out on organizing calls with union reps, and
the companies and employees we visit are not members of unions.



You call that being *close* to labor?
How about *being* labor for several years .... punching a time clock,
wearing company issued uniforms with your name on the shirt, working with,
eating lunch with, drinking on Friday nights with, etc.?


Maybe we have met.

I'll share a little story with you.

Back when the "Big Dig" was in high gear up here, welders/fabricators were
in short supply for the project.
The local unions started a less than covert recruitment drive to find and
sign up qualified welders wherever they could find them.

We had several good, experienced welder/fabricators at my company. The
supervisor, "Big Ed" was a seasoned veteran, having done his time as a union
welder at the old Fore River Shipyard in Quincy, MA back in the 60's. Big
Ed is nearing retirement but still stands about 6'5" and has forearms the
size of my thighs.

One day someone came into my office and told me there were two union
organizers out in the shop. We had a conventional lobby/reception area
where visitors were supposed to sign in, get a badge and safety glasses, but
these guys had snuck around back and entered through one of the shop
overhead doors.

I entered the shop just in time to see "Big Ed" escorting the two union
dudes out the door. He had both by the back of their belts and was half
dragging, half carrying them out. One guy dropped the folder full of
propaganda he was carrying and another of our guys picked it up and threw it
in a dumpster.

They were handing out information on the local union and job offers for the
Big Dig. I've been told this is not normal practice, and I believe it, but
they tried and didn't get very far.

We lost only one employee to the Big Dig project and he returned a little
over a year later, fed up. We simply could not afford to match the pay and
overtime offered to him by the union.

Eisboch




Union organizers typically do not go onto the premises unless management
invites them. Being invited, however, is not that unusual in the
construction trades, especially at the smaller subcontractor shops,
because typically the owner of the shop was and is a union member
himself, and most unions allow the non-union owners and white collar
employees of such operations to participate in the health insurance
program.

The guys who visited your site were in error. They should have put
flyers on the windshields of those worker cars on public property, or
handed out flyers while on public property to workers leaving their shifts.

Your "Big Ed" was out of line, too, by the way.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.D'oh.


Union labor force maybe.
Small business employees ..... no way.
Eisboch


D'oh. We don't meet on the premises, and typically we respond to requests
from employees for a visit. First meetings usually are held at a local
eatery where the employees go for lunch or dinner, or anywhere else
convenient to the place of employment.


Bull**** alert

More like the perimeter of the company's parking lot at the end of the
workday .... *if* they are playing by their own rules.



Eisboch




We're talking about two different venues here. I'm talking about
meetings, not handing out flyer invitations to attend a meeting. I
attended a union meeting at Panera Bread a few weeks ago. We were not
organizing the Panera employees, although a couple seemed very interested.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.



Union labor force maybe.

Small business employees ..... no way.

Eisboch



I doubt it. I frequently go out on organizing calls with union reps, and
the companies and employees we visit are not members of unions.


Harry,
At one time you may have frequently gone out on calls, but for the last
10 years, you are posting in rec.boats 360 days a year.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

hk wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

wrote:

"hk" wrote in message
. ..

I think I am a bit closer to the labor force than you are.D'oh.


Union labor force maybe.
Small business employees ..... no way.
Eisboch


D'oh. We don't meet on the premises, and typically we respond to
requests from employees for a visit. First meetings usually are held
at a local eatery where the employees go for lunch or dinner, or
anywhere else convenient to the place of employment.


Bull**** alert

More like the perimeter of the company's parking lot at the end of the
workday .... *if* they are playing by their own rules.



Eisboch


BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed, and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country
this is.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


Union organizers typically do not go onto the premises unless management
invites them. Being invited, however, is not that unusual in the
construction trades, especially at the smaller subcontractor shops,
because typically the owner of the shop was and is a union member himself,
and most unions allow the non-union owners and white collar employees of
such operations to participate in the health insurance program.

The guys who visited your site were in error. They should have put flyers
on the windshields of those worker cars on public property, or handed out
flyers while on public property to workers leaving their shifts.

Your "Big Ed" was out of line, too, by the way.




"Big Ed" got a round of applause and a few high 5's from many of the other
shop employees.
A good shop is self-policing. Management usually doesn't need to get
involved.

If successful, those union guys would have wiped out the company, causing
many others to suffer.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..


BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this is.


Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 21, 12:37*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this is.

Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. * I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. * With
all due respect (and I mean that) *I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. *In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.

Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. Harry gives me the same respect I give him. Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. It works.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 21, 1:23*pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:





"hk" wrote in message

...

BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.

Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. *Harry gives me the same respect I give him. *Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. *It works.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I do. I give Harry the same respect he give me.
The only difference is, I absolutely refuse to cave into his many,
many lies.
If you and others here want to believe things like a fireboat welcome
in NYC, be my guest!

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

Union organizers typically do not go onto the premises unless management
invites them. Being invited, however, is not that unusual in the
construction trades, especially at the smaller subcontractor shops,
because typically the owner of the shop was and is a union member himself,
and most unions allow the non-union owners and white collar employees of
such operations to participate in the health insurance program.

The guys who visited your site were in error. They should have put flyers
on the windshields of those worker cars on public property, or handed out
flyers while on public property to workers leaving their shifts.

Your "Big Ed" was out of line, too, by the way.




"Big Ed" got a round of applause and a few high 5's from many of the other
shop employees.
A good shop is self-policing. Management usually doesn't need to get
involved.

If successful, those union guys would have wiped out the company, causing
many others to suffer.

Eisboch




The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better wages?

snerk

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..

BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this is.


Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch



I agree that union membership isn't everyone. There are lots of
Americans who prove their rugged anti-union individuality every day by
working for crappy wages without benefits in unsafe conditions. :)

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. Harry gives me the same respect I give him. Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. It works.

Eisboch




You read Loogy's posts?

Wait until I call the Amity Alums!

:)

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
...


The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better wages?

snerk

The "few" guys would represent half of the welding/fabrication shop. We
only had about 45 employees total at the time and that included management,
administrative, engineering, design, electrical, controls and machinists.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...

The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better wages?

snerk

The "few" guys would represent half of the welding/fabrication shop. We
only had about 45 employees total at the time and that included management,
administrative, engineering, design, electrical, controls and machinists.

Eisboch




Well, that's a management problem, right?

I mean, if American corporations are free to dive to the bottom in terms
of layoffs, pay reductions, and benefit cuts, employees should be free
to jump with their feet.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...

The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better
wages?

snerk

The "few" guys would represent half of the welding/fabrication shop. We
only had about 45 employees total at the time and that included
management, administrative, engineering, design, electrical, controls and
machinists.

Eisboch


Well, that's a management problem, right?

I mean, if American corporations are free to dive to the bottom in terms
of layoffs, pay reductions, and benefit cuts, employees should be free to
jump with their feet.


Good grief. Our guys booted them out the door. Don't you get it?

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...
The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better
wages?

snerk
The "few" guys would represent half of the welding/fabrication shop. We
only had about 45 employees total at the time and that included
management, administrative, engineering, design, electrical, controls and
machinists.

Eisboch

Well, that's a management problem, right?

I mean, if American corporations are free to dive to the bottom in terms
of layoffs, pay reductions, and benefit cuts, employees should be free to
jump with their feet.


Good grief. Our guys booted them out the door. Don't you get it?





It's not unusual for workers who are afraid of management to behave that
way, eh?

I'm not saying that was the case at your place, but it isn't unusual.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"hk" wrote in message
. ..



It's not unusual for workers who are afraid of management to behave that
way, eh?



Heard that line many times before. You aren't even original.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

hk wrote:


I doubt it. I frequently go out on organizing calls with union reps, and
the companies and employees we visit are not members of unions.

I hate labor unions. Always have.

Twenty-two years ago my father worked nights in a clutch factory, having
worked his way up over the years from machinist to foreman. The original
owner sold to a larger corporation, and after a while it became time to
negotiate a new contract. The factory had been breaking even or even
losing money on heavy-duty clutches, and the company wanted to start
making light-duty ones where there was more demand. They even went so
far as to move in equipment to start making them.

Even with the new product line, the company would still lose money if
they couldn't cut costs. During the negotiations they said they needed
the workers to take a small pay cut. The union, of course, wouldn't
stand for it. Eventually, the company gave them a take-it-or-leave-it
choice: Take a pay cut or we'll close the plant - and they offered a
severance package if the plant closed. Well, with severance dollar signs
in their eyes, they voted to close the plant. My father, who couldn't
even vote on it because he was a foreman, found himself out of a job at
age 60.

Just try to find a job at 60. It ain't easy to find a job at any age,
much less when you're so near retirement. He lived on unemployment
insurance for a year, then another year on the severance package, and
started collecting Social Security at 62, three years before he planned
to. The depression might have killed him had we not been around to help
him through it. He was never the same again.

The labor union members that decided to throw away their jobs did that
to him. I hate labor unions. Always will.

TJ

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:00:31 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


But, I read. I agree, years ago it was easy and "safe" to hire
illegals. Laws with substantial penalties have been put in place to
discourage that practice however and they are enforced.

Eisboch

Perhaps in your business, but in many sectors, construction for instance,
there is a large "underground" economy. Not only are illegals hired, but
many citizens are paid under the table. Estimates of illegal immigrants
are 10-15 million. They are coming here to make a living. Somebody is
hiring them.


I realize that and have witnessed it. But, they are not typically
"corporations". They are often small time construction or landscaper type
businesses that simply don't show up on the radar screen.

Eisboch


Corporations do hire them. They look at the required documentation and hire
them. The government may come back a year later and say the SS number is
bogus, but there is no way to run legal quick check on an employee's
documentation.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:00:31 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


But, I read. I agree, years ago it was easy and "safe" to hire
illegals. Laws with substantial penalties have been put in place to
discourage that practice however and they are enforced.

Eisboch

Perhaps in your business, but in many sectors, construction for
instance,
there is a large "underground" economy. Not only are illegals hired,
but
many citizens are paid under the table. Estimates of illegal immigrants
are 10-15 million. They are coming here to make a living. Somebody is
hiring them.


I realize that and have witnessed it. But, they are not typically
"corporations". They are often small time construction or landscaper
type businesses that simply don't show up on the radar screen.

Eisboch


Corporations do hire them. They look at the required documentation and
hire them. The government may come back a year later and say the SS
number is bogus, but there is no way to run legal quick check on an
employee's documentation.


I think the Duck correctly pointed out the error of my initial statement
whereby I left out the word "knowingly".

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:23:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
om...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:00:31 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


But, I read. I agree, years ago it was easy and "safe" to hire
illegals. Laws with substantial penalties have been put in place to
discourage that practice however and they are enforced.

Eisboch

Perhaps in your business, but in many sectors, construction for
instance,
there is a large "underground" economy. Not only are illegals hired,
but
many citizens are paid under the table. Estimates of illegal immigrants
are 10-15 million. They are coming here to make a living. Somebody is
hiring them.


I realize that and have witnessed it. But, they are not typically
"corporations". They are often small time construction or landscaper
type businesses that simply don't show up on the radar screen.

Corporations do hire them. They look at the required documentation and
hire them. The government may come back a year later and say the SS
number is bogus, but there is no way to run legal quick check on an
employee's documentation.

I think the Duck correctly pointed out the error of my initial statement
whereby I left out the word "knowingly".

Yes, but did you knowingly know it?

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:23:15 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Calif Bill" wrote in message
news:S66dnexfQf60wjPVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@earthlink. com...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
t...
On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:00:31 -0400, Eisboch wrote:


But, I read. I agree, years ago it was easy and "safe" to hire
illegals. Laws with substantial penalties have been put in place to
discourage that practice however and they are enforced.

Eisboch

Perhaps in your business, but in many sectors, construction for
instance,
there is a large "underground" economy. Not only are illegals hired,
but
many citizens are paid under the table. Estimates of illegal
immigrants
are 10-15 million. They are coming here to make a living. Somebody
is
hiring them.


I realize that and have witnessed it. But, they are not typically
"corporations". They are often small time construction or landscaper
type businesses that simply don't show up on the radar screen.

Corporations do hire them. They look at the required documentation and
hire them. The government may come back a year later and say the SS
number is bogus, but there is no way to run legal quick check on an
employee's documentation.

I think the Duck correctly pointed out the error of my initial statement
whereby I left out the word "knowingly".

Yes, but did you knowingly know it?

No. But now I know I knowingly didn't know it.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"hk" wrote in message
. ..
Eisboch wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
...

The company would have been wiped out if a few guys left for better
wages?

snerk

The "few" guys would represent half of the welding/fabrication shop.
We only had about 45 employees total at the time and that included
management, administrative, engineering, design, electrical, controls
and machinists.

Eisboch


Well, that's a management problem, right?

I mean, if American corporations are free to dive to the bottom in terms
of layoffs, pay reductions, and benefit cuts, employees should be free to
jump with their feet.


Good grief. Our guys booted them out the door. Don't you get it?



He will never get it. He's been brainwashed. Can't you tell? Talk to any
union lemming and you will hear the EXACT SAME sound bytes.

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else..
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.

Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch

But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. Harry gives me the same respect I give him. Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. It works.

Eisboch

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

SmallBoats.com wrote:
With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else..
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

. ..



BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch
But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. Harry gives me the same respect I give him. Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. It works.

Eisboch



I'll make you a deal, Scott. You behave as Eisboch typically does here,
and not in your usual ignorant asshole way, and I'll give you the same
respect I give Eisboch.

Richard and I don't agree on a lot of things, especially things
political, but I don't call him names.

Figured it out?

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 22, 10:35*am, hk wrote:
SmallBoats.com wrote:
With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else..
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

wrote in message
....
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message

om...

BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.

Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.

Eisboch
But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------

Doubtful. *Harry gives me the same respect I give him. *Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. *It works.

Eisboch

I'll make you a deal, Scott. You behave as Eisboch typically does here,
and not in your usual ignorant asshole way, and I'll give you the same
respect I give Eisboch.

Richard and I don't agree on a lot of things, especially things
political, but I don't call him names.

Figured it out?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nonsense, read your own proposal here. If I were to accept, I have to
subscribe to your premise that I am an "ignorat asshole" for being
honest and telling true stories.. While you sit here spewing your
constant bull****. Your value system and judgement are ****ed, I am
not going to even try to subscribe to this weeks version of civil..
You kiss the asses of those who enable you, and no one else.. Period.
If I make a post not involving you at all, say about boats, you post
"crappy little boat" threads.. If I tell a true story of hate and
intimidation at the union shop, you call me an idiot, liar, and of
course worse.. You have never meant or kept a deal here, why would
anybody trust you to start now? A couple of posters here that you
don't attack seem to be ok with it, I don't believe they don't see it
however...

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 22, 11:21*am, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 22, 10:35 am, hk wrote:
SmallBoats.com wrote:
With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else..
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message
....
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news:I9mdndcnT6SzBTDVnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast .com...
BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.
Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.
Eisboch
But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------
Doubtful. *Harry gives me the same respect I give him. *Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. *It works.
Eisboch
I'll make you a deal, Scott. You behave as Eisboch typically does here,
and not in your usual ignorant asshole way, and I'll give you the same
respect I give Eisboch.

Richard and I don't agree on a lot of things, especially things
political, but I don't call him names.

Figured it out?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nonsense, read your own proposal here. If I were to accept, I have to
subscribe to your premise that I am an "ignorat asshole" for being
honest and telling true stories.. While you sit here spewing your
constant bull****. Your value system and judgement are ****ed, I am
not going to even try to subscribe to this weeks version of civil..
You kiss the asses of those who enable you, and no one else.. Period.
If I make a post not involving you at all, say about boats, you post
"crappy little boat" threads.. If I tell a true story of hate and
intimidation at the union shop, you call me an idiot, liar, and of
course worse.. You have never meant or kept a deal here, why would
anybody trust you to start now? A couple of posters here that you
don't attack seem to be ok with it, I don't believe they don't see it
however...

I am sure you experienced whatever you claimed to have experienced at
your "union shop." I'm also sure you brought it upon yourself.
Remmember, you are the guy who said you've been tossed down the stairs a
few times by the police. I suspect your behavior is consistent, no?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Listen here you stupid ignoant ****.. I "saw" what happend, it did not
happen to me... But of course you will keep saying it, just to avoid
the facts.. wafa...

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 22, 11:21*am, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 22, 10:35 am, hk wrote:
SmallBoats.com wrote:
With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else..
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message
....
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news:I9mdndcnT6SzBTDVnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comcast .com...
BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.
Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.
Eisboch
But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------
Doubtful. *Harry gives me the same respect I give him. *Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. *It works.
Eisboch
I'll make you a deal, Scott. You behave as Eisboch typically does here,
and not in your usual ignorant asshole way, and I'll give you the same
respect I give Eisboch.

Richard and I don't agree on a lot of things, especially things
political, but I don't call him names.

Figured it out?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nonsense, read your own proposal here. If I were to accept, I have to
subscribe to your premise that I am an "ignorat asshole" for being
honest and telling true stories.. While you sit here spewing your
constant bull****. Your value system and judgement are ****ed, I am
not going to even try to subscribe to this weeks version of civil..
You kiss the asses of those who enable you, and no one else.. Period.
If I make a post not involving you at all, say about boats, you post
"crappy little boat" threads.. If I tell a true story of hate and
intimidation at the union shop, you call me an idiot, liar, and of
course worse.. You have never meant or kept a deal here, why would
anybody trust you to start now? A couple of posters here that you
don't attack seem to be ok with it, I don't believe they don't see it
however...

I am sure you experienced whatever you claimed to have experienced at
your "union shop." I'm also sure you brought it upon yourself.
Remmember, you are the guy who said you've been tossed down the stairs a
few times by the police. I suspect your behavior is consistent, no?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This kind of outright lie is why only you and Dick can talk about this
stuff. To the rest of us, the conversation is useless ..

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 22, 11:28*am, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 22, 11:21 am, hk wrote:
wrote:
On Aug 22, 10:35 am, hk wrote:
SmallBoats.com wrote:
With all due respect, and I mean it, You are blind Dick.. It only
works for you and shortpants.. I have tried it, even got to the point
where we exchanged persoanal info. It doesn't work for anybody else...
You are a smart guy, why can't you listen to several of us here who
have pointed out your immunity? I just don't get it..
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Aug 21, 12:37 pm, "Eisboch" wrote:
"hk" wrote in message
news:I9mdndcnT6SzBTDVnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d@comca st.com...
BTW, you are projecting your experience and not considering everyone
else's. I've worked with and for unions since 1971, I think, and have
been
out on dozens and dozens of organizing drives, and been involved in
campaigns that lasted days, weeks, months, and in one case, more than a
year. All manner of employees, too...white collar, blue collar and
mixed,
and not easy work in the sort of anti-worker, anti-union country this
is.
Well, if nothing else, this little exchange has been enlightening.. I can
see now where and how many of your beliefs and opinions come from.. With
all due respect (and I mean that) I think your experiences has resulted in
a bit of narrow mindedness.
Unions aren't for everybody. In fact, they aren't for most.
Eisboch
But you've got to understand, if Harry thinks they are good, then that
means they are good for everyone, and everyone better damned well get
with the program, just ask him. If you don't agree with him 100%,
he'll start calling you names and telling lies about you.
----------------------------------------------
Doubtful. *Harry gives me the same respect I give him. *Maybe sometimes a
little more.
Try it sometime. *It works.
Eisboch
I'll make you a deal, Scott. You behave as Eisboch typically does here,
and not in your usual ignorant asshole way, and I'll give you the same
respect I give Eisboch.
Richard and I don't agree on a lot of things, especially things
political, but I don't call him names.
Figured it out?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nonsense, read your own proposal here. If I were to accept, I have to
subscribe to your premise that I am an "ignorat asshole" for being
honest and telling true stories.. While you sit here spewing your
constant bull****. Your value system and judgement are ****ed, I am
not going to even try to subscribe to this weeks version of civil..
You kiss the asses of those who enable you, and no one else.. Period.
If I make a post not involving you at all, say about boats, you post
"crappy little boat" threads.. If I tell a true story of hate and
intimidation at the union shop, you call me an idiot, liar, and of
course worse.. You have never meant or kept a deal here, why would
anybody trust you to start now? A couple of posters here that you
don't attack seem to be ok with it, I don't believe they don't see it
however...
I am sure you experienced whatever you claimed to have experienced at
your "union shop." I'm also sure you brought it upon yourself.
Remmember, you are the guy who said you've been tossed down the stairs a
few times by the police. I suspect your behavior is consistent, no?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

This kind of outright lie is why only you and Dick can talk about this
stuff. To the rest of us, the conversation is useless ..

What outright lie? I recall you stating the police had tossed you down
the stairs. I don't recall what problems you had with your "union shop,"
nor do I care. Everyone has had "problems" sometime in life. Most of us
get over them and move on.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nope, they shoved, I caught myself.. This is why nobody else can get
into your conversations, you can't be honest about anything..

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:10:50 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Aug 22, 11:28*am, hk wrote:
wrote:

snipped

This kind of outright lie is why only you and Dick can talk about this
stuff. To the rest of us, the conversation is useless ..

What outright lie? I recall you stating the police had tossed you down
the stairs. I don't recall what problems you had with your "union shop,"
nor do I care. Everyone has had "problems" sometime in life. Most of us
get over them and move on.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nope, they shoved, I caught myself.. This is why nobody else can get
into your conversations, you can't be honest about anything..

Why try?

For TJ: Health Care Proposals
 

On Aug 22, 12:45*pm, John H. salmonremovebait@gmaildotcom wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:10:50 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Aug 22, 11:28*am, hk wrote:
wrote:

snipped



This kind of outright lie is why only you and Dick can talk about this
stuff. To the rest of us, the conversation is useless ..

What outright lie? I recall you stating the police had tossed you down
the stairs. I don't recall what problems you had with your "union shop,"
nor do I care. Everyone has had "problems" sometime in life. Most of us
get over them and move on.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Nope, they shoved, I caught myself.. This is why nobody else can get
into your conversations, you can't be honest about anything..

Why try?

Because I represent my business here and when he makes up deliberate
lies, distortions, and insinuations about me, someone needs to clear
it up. I come here to learn and talk about what I have learned.. Take
the wood boat thread for instance.. I have a lot to learn there, but
was pretty much unable to participate having to defend wafa's
continuous distortions. This is not productive, I gotta' go..

For TJ: Health Care Proposals