On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:08:15 -0400, wrote:

Latest issue of Latts and Atts has a story about a group of trailer
sailors who went to Bimini.

It can be done, lots have. It's not a walk in the park however, and
there are plenty of risks. Experienced boaters in south Florida treat
the crossing with a great deal of respect.

On Jun 16, 8:52*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. *What do y'all think?

I think that you would make it OK on some days and not at all on
others. *The big risk crossing the Gulf Stream is northerly winds
opposing the current. *When that happens, large breaking seas are
created and people with 50 footers do not cross.

The incidence of northerly winds is much higher in the winter and
spring than in the summer. *Last year in May, friends of ours with a
37 footer had to wait for 2 weeks in Miami before they could cross.
Once you get there, you may also have to wait a while to come back.

Here's a link to a picture that I took in the Abacos 2 years ago. *The
wind had been out of the north east at 15 to 20 kts for two days when
the picture was taken - not at all unusual in the spring.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/859...lbowcayua3.jpg

The big risk in the summer is getting hit with an afternoon thunder
squall in the Gulf Stream. *Every year a number of 20 footers are lost
that way. *Pick your weather very carefully, leave at sunrise and plan
to be off the water by noon time.

For what it's worth, I think the Tolman is too small to be a
comfortable cruiser for any length of time.

Do they lose a lot of boats, are most folks in flotillas and such,
therefore saved? Are there any stats on lost ships or souls by year?

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:26:10 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

The big risk in the summer is getting hit with an afternoon thunder
squall in the Gulf Stream. *Every year a number of 20 footers are lost
that way. *Pick your weather very carefully, leave at sunrise and plan
to be off the water by noon time.

For what it's worth, I think the Tolman is too small to be a
comfortable cruiser for any length of time.



Do they lose a lot of boats, are most folks in flotillas and such,
therefore saved? Are there any stats on lost ships or souls by year?

Most small boats (under 30 ft or so) make the crossing with one or
more buddy boats. Sometimes they both get in trouble.

Florida boating fatalities have been averaging about 70 per year
recently. Approximately 25% are in offshore waters.

There's a lot of information he

http://myfwc.com/law/boating/2007stats/fatality.pdf

and more he

http://www.floridaconservation.org/l...0COUNTYSUM.pdf

wrote:
On Jun 16, 8:52 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?
I think that you would make it OK on some days and not at all on
others. The big risk crossing the Gulf Stream is northerly winds
opposing the current. When that happens, large breaking seas are
created and people with 50 footers do not cross.

The incidence of northerly winds is much higher in the winter and
spring than in the summer. Last year in May, friends of ours with a
37 footer had to wait for 2 weeks in Miami before they could cross.
Once you get there, you may also have to wait a while to come back.

Here's a link to a picture that I took in the Abacos 2 years ago. The
wind had been out of the north east at 15 to 20 kts for two days when
the picture was taken - not at all unusual in the spring.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/859...lbowcayua3.jpg

The big risk in the summer is getting hit with an afternoon thunder
squall in the Gulf Stream. Every year a number of 20 footers are lost
that way. Pick your weather very carefully, leave at sunrise and plan
to be off the water by noon time.

For what it's worth, I think the Tolman is too small to be a
comfortable cruiser for any length of time.

Do they lose a lot of boats, are most folks in flotillas and such,
therefore saved? Are there any stats on lost ships or souls by year?

Yes, do an internet search on Bermuda Triangle.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
wrote:
On Jun 16, 8:52 am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?
I think that you would make it OK on some days and not at all on
others. The big risk crossing the Gulf Stream is northerly winds
opposing the current. When that happens, large breaking seas are
created and people with 50 footers do not cross.

The incidence of northerly winds is much higher in the winter and
spring than in the summer. Last year in May, friends of ours with a
37 footer had to wait for 2 weeks in Miami before they could cross.
Once you get there, you may also have to wait a while to come back.

Here's a link to a picture that I took in the Abacos 2 years ago. The
wind had been out of the north east at 15 to 20 kts for two days when
the picture was taken - not at all unusual in the spring.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/859...lbowcayua3.jpg

The big risk in the summer is getting hit with an afternoon thunder
squall in the Gulf Stream. Every year a number of 20 footers are lost
that way. Pick your weather very carefully, leave at sunrise and plan
to be off the water by noon time.

For what it's worth, I think the Tolman is too small to be a
comfortable cruiser for any length of time.

Do they lose a lot of boats, are most folks in flotillas and such,
therefore saved? Are there any stats on lost ships or souls by year?

Yes, do an internet search on Bermuda Triangle.



....about as close as Reggie will ever get to Bermuda or the Bermuda
Triangle...an internet search.

wrote:
I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

I made that run *once* from Pt. Everglades to Bimini and back in my
19.5' center console. Against normal practices, we did it solo but I
had both a VHF and EPIRB on board. The boat was less than a year old at
the time and the 115HP 4-stroke was broken in. It was a clear day and
the seas were nearly flat and we were already about 12 miles offshore
due east of Ft. Lauderdale so the run was maybe 50 statute miles. We
topped off the tank in Bimini and only took 13 gallons of gas. Then it
started to rain. We headed back and the rain cleared in maybe 15
minutes and it was a smooth ride back to the inlet.

The moral of the story is that you can't plan a run like that in a small
boat. The seas have to be calm and the weather has to be good. It's
best to travel in a group - or at least with one other boat.

The entry fees in the Bahamas are now $150 per boat so make sure you
really want to make the trip!

wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:51 pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:44 pm, wrote:



On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:
I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?
For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive 00
gage tinned battery wire).
I can't answer your question but I will not that even though you have
balanced it, you have still changed the configuration and how it will
act in the water. Being a Tolman you probably have some room to play,
those are great boats from what I can see... I have never been in one,
or gone to Bimini

HK, et. al.:

I am somewhat obsessive about navigation and still use paper charts.
Most of my navigation is done by compass and DR being a longtime
sailor and I do have a GPS and would get a backup one (I do have
mounted and hand held VHF) and a I have a newish personal EPIRB I
bought for some of my single handed sailing trips.
Finding a flotilla to go over with may not be a problem but coming
back it might be a problem. I would probably be spending more than a
few days that most people would so hooking up with a coming back
flotilla might be tough. Also, considerign that the Tolman pounds in
chop due to the small deadrise (I may be able to deal with this by
holding the bow down), I may have to go slower than boats with deeper
V.

Be prepared to stay for a while or leave the boat and fly back if the
weather takes a turn for the worse.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:38:50 -0400, DK
wrote:

The entry fees in the Bahamas are now $150 per boat so make sure you
really want to make the trip!

Yes, and that's in cash, no checks or credit cards. Bigger boats are
$300.

in the summer, the seas CAN be as calm as a bathtub. I have been passed up
by waverunners several times. Give yourself a week to make sure you pick a
perfect day..KNOW YOUR FUEL BURN AND DOUBLE IT... go EARLY in the AM, if you
want to have LOTS of company, try July 3rd or the Friday before labor day.
BTW... 48 NM is FLL, Miami is 42 from the inlet to the markers in Bimini
(yes they now have markers....)

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 20:38:50 -0400, DK
wrote:

The entry fees in the Bahamas are now $150 per boat so make sure you
really want to make the trip!

Yes, and that's in cash, no checks or credit cards. Bigger boats are
$300.

That used to cover the first four people, right? Is there still a limit?