I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:
I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive 00
gage tinned battery wire).

wrote:
I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?


It's a risky trip in any 20' boat. If you decide you have to do it, try
to accompany a small flotilla of boats so that if you have a problem,
help is within close sight.

I used to go as far as 20-25 miles out into the Atlantic from St.
Augustine and Jacksonville on occasion in an 18' outboard boat, but I
never went out there as a single boat.

People attempt that trip you have in mind frequently. Most make it, but
some do not.

Do you have a decent chart, GPS and compass? Bimini is not a large
target. Using the chart from the local seafood restaurant is not
advisable! :)

On Jun 15, 8:44*pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:

I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. *I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. *The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. *I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. *I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. *The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. *What do y'all think?

For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). *However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. *The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive 00
gage tinned battery wire).

I can't answer your question but I will not that even though you have
balanced it, you have still changed the configuration and how it will
act in the water. Being a Tolman you probably have some room to play,
those are great boats from what I can see... I have never been in one,
or gone to Bimini

On Jun 15, 8:51 pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:44 pm, wrote:



On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:

I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive 00
gage tinned battery wire).

I can't answer your question but I will not that even though you have
balanced it, you have still changed the configuration and how it will
act in the water. Being a Tolman you probably have some room to play,
those are great boats from what I can see... I have never been in one,
or gone to Bimini

HK, et. al.:

I am somewhat obsessive about navigation and still use paper charts.
Most of my navigation is done by compass and DR being a longtime
sailor and I do have a GPS and would get a backup one (I do have
mounted and hand held VHF) and a I have a newish personal EPIRB I
bought for some of my single handed sailing trips.
Finding a flotilla to go over with may not be a problem but coming
back it might be a problem. I would probably be spending more than a
few days that most people would so hooking up with a coming back
flotilla might be tough. Also, considerign that the Tolman pounds in
chop due to the small deadrise (I may be able to deal with this by
holding the bow down), I may have to go slower than boats with deeper
V.

On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:51 pm, wrote:



On Jun 15, 8:44 pm, wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:

I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and 9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive 00
gage tinned battery wire).

I can't answer your question but I will not that even though you have
balanced it, you have still changed the configuration and how it will
act in the water. Being a Tolman you probably have some room to play,
those are great boats from what I can see... I have never been in one,
or gone to Bimini

HK, et. al.:

I am somewhat obsessive about navigation and still use paper charts.
Most of my navigation is done by compass and DR being a longtime
sailor and I do have a GPS and would get a backup one (I do have
mounted and hand held VHF) and a I have a newish personal EPIRB I
bought for some of my single handed sailing trips.
Finding a flotilla to go over with may not be a problem but coming
back it might be a problem. I would probably be spending more than a
few days that most people would so hooking up with a coming back
flotilla might be tough. Also, considerign that the Tolman pounds in
chop due to the small deadrise (I may be able to deal with this by
holding the bow down), I may have to go slower than boats with deeper
V.

When I consider the safety of going in the Tolman vs the 28' Sailboat,
I have to conclude that the Tolman could be safer because it allow me
to seek shelter in bad weather whereas the sailboat with nearly 4'
draft (and max speed of 6 kts) does not. The trip to Bimini in the
sailboat would take about 10 hours while int he Tolman maybe 4 hours,
a big diff. Do I dare ask this group about relative safety of sail vs
power for such a trip?

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

I haven't attempted that passage nor would I do it in a 20 footer.

However, I have read about passages to Bimini in 20 foot boats and I
understand it's not all that uncommon.

As I understand it, the passage can be very tricky and you should have
a gps/chartplotter, charts and at a minimum, enough safety gear to
survive if something happens. You will be crossing the Gulf Stream
and that is the worlds second most powerful open ocean current.

Harry mentioned flotilla and that seems to be the preferred method
according to this website.

http://www.biminicruisingguide.com/

So it's doable. You also have to pay a landing fee when you get there
- I don't know how much it is - something I read said $100 dollars but
I'm not at all sure abot that. Be prepared to be searched on return
or a minimum stopped.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 18:22:21 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


When I consider the safety of going in the Tolman vs the 28' Sailboat,
I have to conclude that the Tolman could be safer because it allow me
to seek shelter in bad weather whereas the sailboat with nearly 4'
draft (and max speed of 6 kts) does not. The trip to Bimini in the
sailboat would take about 10 hours while int he Tolman maybe 4 hours,
a big diff. Do I dare ask this group about relative safety of sail vs
power for such a trip?

I'd be more concerned about the relative safety of an open boat vs a
boat with better the sea keeping abilities that a sail boat would
provide.

If you are worried about tucking in the lee of an island in a storm,
four feet of draft isn't going to make a huge difference and in fact
may be safer than an open skiff.

Just my opinion.

wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 9:08 pm, wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:51 pm, wrote:



On Jun 15, 8:44 pm, wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:35 pm, wrote:

I've been wanting to sail to teh Bahamas from NW FL (near
Carabelle)
but I realize that maybe a power boat would be better. I could
trailer my 20' Tolman Standard to Miami and then take her across to
Bimini. The Tolman would give better access to the cool places
with
shallow water than the sailboat. I have outfitted the Tolman with
a
full enclosure (removable) for camping. I have a 90 hp Yamaha and
9.9
hp backup.
However, the Tolman has only a 12.5 degree deadrise so she does
pound
in any chop. The advice I see on the web is to go in Summer due to
low seas but being a FL native I know Summer is miserably hot and
would prefer Spring.
Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

For those who think the 90 hp is too small for the 20' Tolman need to
realize that she weighs about half of what a normal glass boat weighs
(and gets amazing fuel economy). However, this means she gets shoved
around by seas too. The 90 hp with 9.9 kicker is actually more than
the designer (Renn Tolman) specified for transom weight but I
balanced
it by putting the batteries in front of the console (with expensive
00
gage tinned battery wire).

I can't answer your question but I will not that even though you have
balanced it, you have still changed the configuration and how it will
act in the water. Being a Tolman you probably have some room to play,
those are great boats from what I can see... I have never been in one,
or gone to Bimini

HK, et. al.:

I am somewhat obsessive about navigation and still use paper charts.
Most of my navigation is done by compass and DR being a longtime
sailor and I do have a GPS and would get a backup one (I do have
mounted and hand held VHF) and a I have a newish personal EPIRB I
bought for some of my single handed sailing trips.
Finding a flotilla to go over with may not be a problem but coming
back it might be a problem. I would probably be spending more than a
few days that most people would so hooking up with a coming back
flotilla might be tough. Also, considerign that the Tolman pounds in
chop due to the small deadrise (I may be able to deal with this by
holding the bow down), I may have to go slower than boats with deeper
V.

When I consider the safety of going in the Tolman vs the 28' Sailboat,
I have to conclude that the Tolman could be safer because it allow me
to seek shelter in bad weather whereas the sailboat with nearly 4'
draft (and max speed of 6 kts) does not. The trip to Bimini in the
sailboat would take about 10 hours while int he Tolman maybe 4 hours,
a big diff. Do I dare ask this group about relative safety of sail vs
power for such a trip?

I'd feel a lot safer in most 28 foot sailboats vs an open power boat.
If bad weather did kick up you would have a better chance of riding it out.

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:35:14 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Bimini is only 48 nm from Miami and from there most runs are short.
It is the 48 nm run across the Gulf Stream that concerns me in the
Tolman. What do y'all think?

I think that you would make it OK on some days and not at all on
others. The big risk crossing the Gulf Stream is northerly winds
opposing the current. When that happens, large breaking seas are
created and people with 50 footers do not cross.

The incidence of northerly winds is much higher in the winter and
spring than in the summer. Last year in May, friends of ours with a
37 footer had to wait for 2 weeks in Miami before they could cross.
Once you get there, you may also have to wait a while to come back.

Here's a link to a picture that I took in the Abacos 2 years ago. The
wind had been out of the north east at 15 to 20 kts for two days when
the picture was taken - not at all unusual in the spring.

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/859...lbowcayua3.jpg

The big risk in the summer is getting hit with an afternoon thunder
squall in the Gulf Stream. Every year a number of 20 footers are lost
that way. Pick your weather very carefully, leave at sunrise and plan
to be off the water by noon time.

For what it's worth, I think the Tolman is too small to be a
comfortable cruiser for any length of time.