On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 16:33:34 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Feb 10, 12:25?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing

Talk to middle and high school teachers about NCLB and see what they
say about the system.

It's a total disaster. ?And in states that require mainstreaming of
those children who are developmentally, physically, mentally or
emotionally "challenged", it's almost impossible to achieve the
standards required by NCLB.


Both of my kids are teaching in the classroom. My son (HS Social
Studies) as a career and my daughter (MS Science) as a step toward
eventually becoming a school administrator.

The have been some positive aspects of the NCLB. For instance,
teachers must demonstrate a level of expertise in the subjec they
teach. The schools can't simply hire a guy because he's a great
football coach and then say, "Oh, yeah...and you'll be teaching two
periods of astronomy every morning so better read a chapter or two
ahead of the students in the text book. Oh, and next semester you'll
be teaching advanced trig, but don't worry about that- nobody will
understand the subject well enought to realize you have no facility
what-so-ever for math."

But in general, the system is not so good. Far too many districts are
strictly "teaching to the test". My son has several classes of HS
freshmen who are spending the entire 9th grade simply studying to pas
the 10th grade NCLB test- it's that critical to the district that
nearly all the 10th graders pass so that the district will continue to
get federal school dollars.

Chuck - in case you don't remember, teachers have been teaching to the test
since mid-terms, quarter exams, semester exams, and finals were given back
in ought-two. Did you never take a 'chapter test'? Do you not believe you
were taught the information to enable you to pass the test?

You folks with your 'teach the test' idea seem to forget all about your own
education, unless you were never tested.

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.
--
John H

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.

Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.

So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.
--
John H

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:25:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.
Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.
So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.

Well, let's cut to the chase.

Who develops your Mastery Test or whatever they call it in Virginia?


This is hilarious, in a sad way, Tom. You've having a discussion with a
*failed* teacher, one who was unable to motivate his students, and who
simply gave up.

HK wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:25:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers
don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of
learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.
Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.
So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've
been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it
meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.

Well, let's cut to the chase.

Who develops your Mastery Test or whatever they call it in Virginia?


This is hilarious, in a sad way, Tom. You've having a discussion with a
*failed* teacher, one who was unable to motivate his students, and who
simply gave up.


Harry,
SWS has discussions with you all the time, and you have failed in life.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 10:17:23 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:25:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.
Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.
So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.

Well, let's cut to the chase.

Who develops your Mastery Test or whatever they call it in Virginia?


This is hilarious, in a sad way, Tom. You've having a discussion with a
*failed* teacher, one who was unable to motivate his students, and who
simply gave up.

Which is why I was one of two teachers in our district to recieve an
'Exemplary' performance appraisal.

Harry, I hate calling names, but you do qualify for the 'liar' title. Of
course, some will think your comment 'cool'.

We'll see what kind of response you get from the person to whom it was
addressed.
--
John H

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:13:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:25:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.

Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.

So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.

Well, let's cut to the chase.

Who develops your Mastery Test or whatever they call it in Virginia?

The Standards of Learning Tests are developed by the state.
--
John H

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 19:55:22 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:09:13 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:13:45 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:25:42 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 02:46:06 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:28:36 -0500, John H.
wrote:

If the tests are developed and administered properly, the teachers don't
know what's on the test anyway. They know what the standards of learning
are, and they try to ensure the students can meet the standards.

Unfortunately, you are out of touch. That may be how it used to work,
but not under the new NCLB "Standard".

The reason? They have to teach across a broad population from the
slowest to the brightest including those who can't/won't learn. They
have to up the high end as far as possible to raise the average to
acceptable levels for continued funding or the dreaded take over by
the State.

So, are you saying that the teachers in CT know what the test questions
will be and actually use those questions to design their curriculum?

Then your school system has big problems.

Why does it work in Virginia, but not in your school district? We've been
using the Virginia Standards of Learning (SOL) test for years and it meets
all the requirements of the NCLB.

Well, let's cut to the chase.

Who develops your Mastery Test or whatever they call it in Virginia?

The Standards of Learning Tests are developed by the state.

Not what I asked.

Who develops the actual test?

The questions are initially developed by ETS. They are then reviewed by a
committee of 15 educators in the VDOE. This group can adopt, modify, or
throw out questions. The questions are then field tested, and the results
returned to VDOE where the field test statistics are reviewed and the
questions reevaluated. Finally, they are adopted to become part of the
test.


--
John H