On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:33:47 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Depending on the way they're set up, it's possible to have multiple CDs
totally several hundred thousand in the same institution, all insured.

Not really.

You can, for instance, have an account for $100K in a CD, an account
for a trust or joint account, but that's about it.

And technically, it's per depositor - not per account. So you as an
individual can only insure $100K.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:33:47 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.
It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.
Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.
That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.
Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?
FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.
Depending on the way they're set up, it's possible to have multiple CDs
totally several hundred thousand in the same institution, all insured.

Not really.

You can, for instance, have an account for $100K in a CD, an account
for a trust or joint account, but that's about it.

And technically, it's per depositor - not per account. So you as an
individual can only insure $100K.



Bank failures! Coming soon?

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:37:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:33:47 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Depending on the way they're set up, it's possible to have multiple CDs
totally several hundred thousand in the same institution, all insured.

Not really.

You can, for instance, have an account for $100K in a CD, an account
for a trust or joint account, but that's about it.

And technically, it's per depositor - not per account. So you as an
individual can only insure $100K.

Well, then I'd have to have the CD's set up in 'other' than me as an
individual, wouldn't I?
--
John H

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:58:33 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:37:00 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:33:47 -0500, Salmon Bait
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Depending on the way they're set up, it's possible to have multiple CDs
totally several hundred thousand in the same institution, all insured.

Not really.

You can, for instance, have an account for $100K in a CD, an account
for a trust or joint account, but that's about it.

And technically, it's per depositor - not per account. So you as an
individual can only insure $100K.

Well, then I'd have to have the CD's set up in 'other' than me as an
individual, wouldn't I?

That's the point - you, as an individual, can only insure $100K. If
you misrepresent as somebody else, you aren't you are you? :)

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

Mob guys call it skimming. 401k fund managers call it fees.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...401-fees_x.htm
You can find plenty of others.
Won't argue the definition of "transparency."
My point was you are locked into employer offerings, which aren't
always competitive.

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

For those nearing retirement and maxing out tax-protected 401k
contributions, that's a very poor option.

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

No. For IRA's it's 250k.
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits...standings.html

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:59:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.
It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.
Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.
That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

Mob guys call it skimming. 401k fund managers call it fees.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...401-fees_x.htm
You can find plenty of others.
Won't argue the definition of "transparency."
My point was you are locked into employer offerings, which aren't
always competitive.



Mob guys charge lower rates than credit card companies and have a higher
rate of return on investments than publicly traded companies. Or at
least they did. Dunno what the mob boys are doing these days.

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:47:39 -0500, hk wrote:


Mob guys charge lower rates than credit card companies and have a higher
rate of return on investments than publicly traded companies. Or at
least they did. Dunno what the mob boys are doing these days.

The only mob guys I've dealt with are bookies. 60-1 max payout.
In the Navy we had "mob sailors" operating what we called on my ship
"slush funds." Basic rate was 5 for 7. Get 5, pay back 7.
Two weeks. Had a buddy who ran one, so I got 5 for 6.
Real handy when you needed the cash, which was often enough
in some ports.

--Vic

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:42:05 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

No. For IRA's it's 250k.
http://www.fdic.gov/deposit/deposits...standings.html

Learn something new everyday.

I didn't know that.

Kewl...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Bzzt. FDIC insurance is $250k on IRA's.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:28:01 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:12:08 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:06:19 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

The money market fund in mine was always a couple points lower than
"free market" rates were offering.

It's all about risk/reward. I'll bet your 401k money market funds
were being put to work in less risky markets.

Probably cost a point just for the fund manager vigorish these
401k's extract. Very little transparency with these funds, and they
can skim as well as any mob casino operator.

That's not true at all. If you drop into a fund which participates in
T-bills or muni, Fed funds or Fed Short Term, that's very transparent
- has to be by it's base function.

Even funds that do commercial paper or chase LIBOR spreads have to be
transparent. I'm not sure what you are talking about with "skimming".

My main complaint as I neared retirement was their was no low-risk
(read FDIC) place for my retirement money. Even money markets can go
negative, or so I was told.

Sure there is - it's called a savings account. Which, when you think
about it, is a money market fund that isn't transparent.

That's why it's insured. :)

But you may be right. After all most of my IRA CD money was tied up
in the mortgage market. Though it's FDIC insured, I was pleased
when BOC picked up Countrywide. Don't savor the thought
of going through the FDIC to get my retirement money...but it still
might happen. Who the hell knows?

FDIC is not a panacea for investing or any sort of risk/reward
arbitrage. Its looks good, but it's only so much per depositor - for
any real money, you'd have to have seperate accounts at seperate banks
which can be a nightmare - in particular if you don't actively manage
the accounts.

And it's only good for $100K per.

Bzzt. FDIC insurance is $250k on IRA's.



Someone pointed that out already.