On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:48:57 -0500, WaIIy penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


|That's total baloney.
|
|You obviously know nothing about the printing industry.
|
|Look at "little" companies like RR Donnelley and Quebecor, to
|name just two.
|
|Consolidation has been happening in the printing business for years.

First, I'd like to observe your post as a lame-ass troll.... but, I'll
calmly respond. That seems important to some....

RR Donnelley.... what can I say? This is straight from their web site:
"We provide integrated onsite-offshore Business Process Outsourcing
services to Fortune 500 companies and to professional services firms
through our operations in North America, Europe, India, Sri Lanka and
the Philippines. Our judgment-based outsourcing solutions address a
variety of needs for vertical segments that include financial
services, publishing, manufacturing, transportation,
telecommunications, healthcare, advertising, investment banking and
more."
http://www.rrdonnelley.com/wwwRRD1/S...fficeTiger.asp

A rose by any other name???? What does "offshore" mean to you?

Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global
presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even
make a pretext of being "ONshore!"

Your posting address shows West Monroe, LA. I used to call frequently
on a printing outfit there - Manville. If you are anywhere near there,
you must know the story of Manville = Riverwood = Riverwood Holding
(which is now "...a global packaging company..." ).


As I calmly noted, a lame-ass troll devoid of any truth.... but you
knew that.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

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On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:

Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global
presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even
make a pretext of being "ONshore!"

Um...No?

Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe.

I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants
here in the US.

However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh
from Amazon - printed in Brazil.

On Jan 3, 9:06�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns

wrote:
Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global
presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even
make a pretext of being "ONshore!"

Um...No?

Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe.

I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants
here in the US.

However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh
from Amazon - printed in Brazil.

Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily
newspapers is moving offshore.

You send a computer file to East Impoverished Overshirt, where a
computerized press reads the data and cranks out a book, brochure, or
what-not. All the labor for stacking, packing, shipping, etc costs $1
an hour instead of $12-15. Another significant consideration is that
in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply
available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in
the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk
of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become
sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many
"expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US.

Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for
items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback)
there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the
increased shipping. Newspapers need to be turned around too rapidly to
be printed offshore, although we may see more special weekly sections
turned out off the main press. Most magazines don't generate enough
per unit revenue at the point of sale to justify the higher shipping
costs associated with overseas printing, and once again there is
normally a very short window between the final assembly of the
editorial and advertising elements and the day the publication needs
to be distributed. If it takes an extra two weeks to get some crime
novel to market, no real harm done.

Chuck Gould wrote:
On Jan 3, 9:06�am, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns

wrote:
Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global
presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even
make a pretext of being "ONshore!"
Um...No?

Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe.

I may have the two states wrong, but I know they have two large plants
here in the US.

However, related to this, I'm looking at one of my newest novels fresh
from Amazon - printed in Brazil.

Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily
newspapers is moving offshore.

You send a computer file to East Impoverished Overshirt, where a
computerized press reads the data and cranks out a book, brochure, or
what-not. All the labor for stacking, packing, shipping, etc costs $1
an hour instead of $12-15. Another significant consideration is that
in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply
available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in
the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk
of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become
sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many
"expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US.

Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for
items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback)
there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the
increased shipping.

I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone
care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the
product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product
from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100
cover price.

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


| Another significant consideration is that
| in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply
| available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in
| the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk
| of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become
| sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many
| "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US.

Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the
MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors.

| Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for
| items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback)
| there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the
| increased shipping.
|
|I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone
|care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the
|product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product
|from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100
|cover price.

Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1
cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The
difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or
loss of $50,000! It adds up fast.

Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made
anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I
could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing
field?

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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Gene Kearns wrote:
On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


| Another significant consideration is that
| in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply
| available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in
| the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk
| of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become
| sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many
| "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US.

Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the
MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors.

| Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for
| items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback)
| there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the
| increased shipping.
|
|I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone
|care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the
|product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product
|from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100
|cover price.

Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1
cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The
difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or
loss of $50,000! It adds up fast.

If you can print and ship an average book for $1.00 less then doing it
in the US, it doesn't matter what the cover price is. If the book has a
cover price of $100 but they are only selling 1,000 of them, they will
save themselves a $1,000. If you sell a book for $10, but sell
1,000,000 you have increased your profit by a million dollars. The
cover price should not impact in your cost analysis.

Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made
anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I
could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing
field?

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:16:44 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|Gene Kearns wrote:
| On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 12:52:29 -0500, Reginald P. Smithers III penned
| the following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:
|
|
| | Another significant consideration is that
| | in some of the ecnomically developing countries a variety of cheaply
| | available but dangerous inks can be used that are no longer legal in
| | the US or Canada. In many of these countries, there is a lot less risk
| | of class-action lawsuits 10-20 years down the road as workers become
| | sickened by exposure to a variety of chemicals or a lack of many
| | "expensive" safety precautions that would be mandated in the US.
|
| Along with unfriendly inks is the problem of solvents. One of the
| MAJOR expenses in printing is reclamation of solvent vapors.
|
| | Shipping costs of the finished product are higher, of course, but for
| | items like a novel (with perhaps a $20 cover price on a paperback)
| | there is enough revenue generated per unit sold to offset the
| | increased shipping.
| |
| |I followed everything but the cover price concept. Why would anyone
| |care what the cover price is? If they can manufacture and ship the
| |product to the US cheaper than manufacturing and shipping the product
| |from the USA, it shouldn't matter if it has a $1 cover price or a $100
| |cover price.
|
| Bean counters? If you print a million copies, a $100 cover vs. a $1
| cover is $99,000,000! That sort of number gets attention. The
| difference in price of $.50 over 100,000 copies would mean the gain or
| loss of $50,000! It adds up fast.
|
|If you can print and ship an average book for $1.00 less then doing it
|in the US, it doesn't matter what the cover price is. If the book has a
|cover price of $100 but they are only selling 1,000 of them, they will
|save themselves a $1,000. If you sell a book for $10, but sell
|1,000,000 you have increased your profit by a million dollars. The
|cover price should not impact in your cost analysis.
|
| Shipping.... now, that.... *I* don't get. How can I buy a Chinese made
| anvil weighing 50# from a retail/importer company for less than I
| could just ship the anvil across town? Do we need a level playing
| field?
|

Hmmm... on second read, I think we are talking apples and oranges. You
are saying "cover price" and I am thinking "price of the cover".....

If the OP was talking about the cost of the cover, my point makes
sense. Covers are often embossed, foil stamped, and any other of a
number of proce$$$$$es.

I can easily imagine the cost of producing the cover to approach, if
not exceed, the cost of printing the *rest* of the book.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On Jan 3, 12:14�pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily
newspapers is moving offshore.

Untrue by a longshot.

Try going to one of the Chicago print shows.

It's not all offshore yet.

But,

The number of items we see printed in Mexico, China, (and in
Shortwave's example Brazil) is increasing very rapidly. I know of
specific cases where publishers who previously printed in the US have
started using Chinese presses within the last year or so.

WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 16:06:32 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Jan 3, 12:14?pm, WaIIy wrote:
On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:34:25 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould

wrote:
Printing of almost everything except some periodicals and daily
newspapers is moving offshore.
Untrue by a longshot.

Try going to one of the Chicago print shows.
It's not all offshore yet.

But,

The number of items we see printed in Mexico, China, (and in
Shortwave's example Brazil) is increasing very rapidly. I know of
specific cases where publishers who previously printed in the US have
started using Chinese presses within the last year or so.

There's no doubt more is going overseas, which is a bad trend.

I could pop Nixon over the head for opening up China to our markets as
he did. I could also pop every president, senator and congressman who
has allowed the many and prolific trade practices which account for our
unreal trade deficit.

It is just the evolution of manufacturing. But, you have to ask your
self how the Japanese took over the automobile manufacturing business
world wide with the only native resource being the labor.

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:06:51 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing penned the
following well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

|On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:56:14 -0500, Gene Kearns
wrote:
|
|Quebecor? What has that got to do with anything? Their "global
|presence" doesn't even include a location in the US. They don't even
|make a pretext of being "ONshore!"
|
|Um...No?
|
|Quebecor has a plant in Michigan and Kentucky I believe.

It appears that they consider themselves a Canadian company...
foreign, anyway, not US. That makes them a ridiculous choice to
support the troll's statements.

I suspect that they have money collection centers in nearly (if not)
every state.... that ca$h then gets wired (along with other printing
orders, via optical network) to Canada, France, Spain, or
Argentina....

It sorta looks like they are crashing and burning, anyway. In '03
their stock was worth Can$37.75 and is now trading at around Can$1.49.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------
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Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
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