Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

On Dec 21, 10:21*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...

All quality power amps are still analog. *And they're still class a or
class ab. *That's got nothing to do with the tube/transistor debate.
No one would argue with the fact that the class d switching amps kids
are putting in cars have terrible specs and terrible sound. *Digital
is how you store your music and if you're still using analog storage
then you're just stupid.

And some of the tube purests are bi-amping these days and running a
transistor amp for the lows. *I won't argue that a lot of people
prefer the warmer sound produced by tube amps. *But tube amps have
problems with the lows, it's the physics of the output transformer and
that's just unavoidable. *If all you ever listen to is elevator music
predominately between 1khz and 10khz then tube amps are fine. * But
you try to push any amount of 20hz through a tube amp and you're going
to run into transformer saturation. *When the rest of your signal is
riding on top of that 20hz then it gets impacted as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I use a conventional receiver/amp. (Denon) *I use it's *circuitry to decode
the Dolby, DTS or THX signal, power the center channel and surrounds and use
the subwoofer line output to feed the bass or LFE to a self powered 15"
Velodyne sub. *I don't power the mains with the Denon. *I take the mains
preamp output and currently feed a 150w/channel B&K Components power amp.
It drives the Martin-Logan mains. *I've been experimenting with
disconnecting the conventional woofers built into the Martin-Logan's and
driving the electrostatic section only. *The trick is to get the crossover
setting right in the sub output so there's a nice, seamless transition.

I'd love to get a hold of a decent pair (or two channel) vacuum tube power
amp in the 75-100 watt range and try it instead of the B&K amp. *I don't
know how it would sound though because the impedance of electrostatics goes
down as the frequency goes up, just the opposite of a conventional speaker..
I've forgotten the exact value but at something like 18,000 Hz, the
electrostatics are approaching 1 ohm or less.

I am also going to steal the SACD player currently hooked up to another
system in another room. * I have to wait until Mrs.E. isn't paying
attention.

Eisboch

I think you will still need some conventional woofers even if you are
using the sub. The elctrostatics are not going to be good below
something between 500hz and 1khz and the sub is not going to be good
above 100hz or so.

I only use my sub for surround sound. For stereo music I run it all
through my bi-amp setup. I have home made cabinets with 2 10" woofers
per side driven from an adcom 555 that is fed everything below 700hz.
The stuff above 700hz I run through another adcom 535 into a pair of
MTM setups using 2 conventional 5" midbass and a ribbon tweeter on
each side. I'm using a dbx active crossover to do the split. Bi-
amping was the biggest improvement I've made. Geting the rest of the
signal away from the low end really makes a difference. In a single
amp setup you have all the mid and high frequencies basically riding
on top of the lows. So when the low swings real far you push the mids
and highs closer to the limits of the amp. With an active crossovers
you have a variable crossover point so you can tune it for your
cabinets as well as different types of music.

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...


All quality power amps are still analog. And they're still class a or
class ab. That's got nothing to do with the tube/transistor debate.
No one would argue with the fact that the class d switching amps kids
are putting in cars have terrible specs and terrible sound. Digital
is how you store your music and if you're still using analog storage
then you're just stupid.

And some of the tube purests are bi-amping these days and running a
transistor amp for the lows. I won't argue that a lot of people
prefer the warmer sound produced by tube amps. But tube amps have
problems with the lows, it's the physics of the output transformer and
that's just unavoidable. If all you ever listen to is elevator music
predominately between 1khz and 10khz then tube amps are fine. But
you try to push any amount of 20hz through a tube amp and you're going
to run into transformer saturation. When the rest of your signal is
riding on top of that 20hz then it gets impacted as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I use a conventional receiver/amp. (Denon) I use it's circuitry to
decode the Dolby, DTS or THX signal, power the center channel and
surrounds and use the subwoofer line output to feed the bass or LFE to a
self powered 15" Velodyne sub. I don't power the mains with the Denon. I
take the mains preamp output and currently feed a 150w/channel B&K
Components power amp. It drives the Martin-Logan mains. I've been
experimenting with disconnecting the conventional woofers built into the
Martin-Logan's and driving the electrostatic section only. The trick is
to get the crossover setting right in the sub output so there's a nice,
seamless transition.

I'd love to get a hold of a decent pair (or two channel) vacuum tube power
amp in the 75-100 watt range and try it instead of the B&K amp. I don't
know how it would sound though because the impedance of electrostatics
goes down as the frequency goes up, just the opposite of a conventional
speaker. I've forgotten the exact value but at something like 18,000 Hz,
the electrostatics are approaching 1 ohm or less.


Give these people a call about your ideas. They REALLY know what they're
talking about. I suspect they've spent some time shmoozing with the crew
from McIntosh.

http://www.audioclassics.com/

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:41:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Real men live in the analog world. :)

They keep telling me "analog is dead".
(TVs and cell phones anyway)
I suppose if you still have vinyl and acetate copies of old artists
you can be analog but the studios are digital now so you are still
digital, like it or not.

In Costco the other day, guy behind me is checking out with a USB turntable.
Maybe I can convert all the old vinyl's to the wife's IPOD. One advantage
of old age and working with pneumatic computer equipment, the hearing does
not notice as many bad recordings.

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:41:07 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

Real men live in the analog world. :)

They keep telling me "analog is dead".
(TVs and cell phones anyway)
I suppose if you still have vinyl and acetate copies of old artists
you can be analog but the studios are digital now so you are still
digital, like it or not.

In Costco the other day, guy behind me is checking out with a USB
turntable. Maybe I can convert all the old vinyl's to the wife's IPOD.
One advantage of old age and working with pneumatic computer equipment,
the hearing does not notice as many bad recordings.



You might want to find out first if the transfer to the iPod will involve
any nasty compression that you're not aware of. There might be younger
people in your family who could appreciate that music in the future. Better
to copy to a hard disk in the most unadulterated form possible.

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

I think you will still need some conventional woofers even if you are
using the sub. The elctrostatics are not going to be good below
something between 500hz and 1khz and the sub is not going to be good
above 100hz or so.

I only use my sub for surround sound. For stereo music I run it all
through my bi-amp setup. I have home made cabinets with 2 10" woofers
per side driven from an adcom 555 that is fed everything below 700hz.
The stuff above 700hz I run through another adcom 535 into a pair of
MTM setups using 2 conventional 5" midbass and a ribbon tweeter on
each side. I'm using a dbx active crossover to do the split. Bi-
amping was the biggest improvement I've made. Geting the rest of the
signal away from the low end really makes a difference. In a single
amp setup you have all the mid and high frequencies basically riding
on top of the lows. So when the low swings real far you push the mids
and highs closer to the limits of the amp. With an active crossovers
you have a variable crossover point so you can tune it for your
cabinets as well as different types of music.

-----------------------------------

That's an ideal setup. What is the active crossover you are using?

You're right about running the electrostatics only without the 8 inch
woofers that they build in. They are there for a reason.

It's funny ... when we were in Florida I built a home theater room,
intending to use it for music and music videos as well as movies. I decided
to buy one of the newer, 18" digital drive Velodyne subwoofers for it. I
also had the older, manual setup 15" Velodyne that I am using now. I
discovered that the 18" was perfect for LFE when watching a movie, but the
15" is much, much better for music. It has a nice, tight bass reproduction
that the 18" did not have. I also have a Polk dual 10" sub that is on
Mrs.E's system and two or three of the little Velodyne 10" subs here and
there. They are cute, but the 15-incher is the best, musically.

Eisboch

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:21:13 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

I'd love to get a hold of a decent pair (or two channel) vacuum tube power
amp in the 75-100 watt range and try it instead of the B&K amp.

Wanna try a couple of Mac 50s?

I have two I that I haven't reinstalled when I moved my stereo system
to the office.


LOVE to .... but I don't dare. With my luck something would happen to one
or both of them.
Now, if you aren't going to use them and want to sell them, please keep me
on the top of your list.

Eisboch

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Give these people a call about your ideas. They REALLY know what they're
talking about. I suspect they've spent some time shmoozing with the crew
from McIntosh.

http://www.audioclassics.com/


Bookmarked. Thanks.

So much to do. So little time.

Eisboch

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...


Their clock radio and boombox are nice too. Just not any better than
similar offerings from other manufacturers, and not worth anywhere
near what they sell them for. Sorta like DeBeers and how they market
diamonds. They created a myth and some suckers feel honored to be a
part of the cult.



I know. I am married to one.

Eisboch

Ouch! I thought Mrs. E lurked here on occasion.
I'd wait until after Christmas before saying too much! ;-)


Do you know what it really is? It's memories stored in her head, not just
the product or the sound.
She remembers the days in the Navy and my excitement of getting a set of
used Bose speakers (which I really couldn't afford) and the hours I made her
sit and listen to them while I played with the setups. One of her favorite
pictures is of me, laying on my back on the floor of our apartment in Italy
with two Advent bookshelf speakers set up on either side of my head like
giant headphones, listening to Santana while she tended our crying first
born.

Eisboch

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

Anyone got a docking thing for an iPod?
 

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

I think you will still need some conventional woofers even if you are
using the sub. The elctrostatics are not going to be good below
something between 500hz and 1khz and the sub is not going to be good
above 100hz or so.

I only use my sub for surround sound. For stereo music I run it all
through my bi-amp setup. I have home made cabinets with 2 10" woofers
per side driven from an adcom 555 that is fed everything below 700hz.
The stuff above 700hz I run through another adcom 535 into a pair of
MTM setups using 2 conventional 5" midbass and a ribbon tweeter on
each side. I'm using a dbx active crossover to do the split. Bi-
amping was the biggest improvement I've made. Geting the rest of the
signal away from the low end really makes a difference. In a single
amp setup you have all the mid and high frequencies basically riding
on top of the lows. So when the low swings real far you push the mids
and highs closer to the limits of the amp. With an active crossovers
you have a variable crossover point so you can tune it for your
cabinets as well as different types of music.

-----------------------------------

That's an ideal setup. What is the active crossover you are using?

You're right about running the electrostatics only without the 8 inch
woofers that they build in. They are there for a reason.

It's funny ... when we were in Florida I built a home theater room,
intending to use it for music and music videos as well as movies. I
decided to buy one of the newer, 18" digital drive Velodyne subwoofers for
it. I also had the older, manual setup 15" Velodyne that I am using now.
I discovered that the 18" was perfect for LFE when watching a movie, but
the 15" is much, much better for music. It has a nice, tight bass
reproduction that the 18" did not have. I also have a Polk dual 10" sub
that is on Mrs.E's system and two or three of the little Velodyne 10" subs
here and there. They are cute, but the 15-incher is the best, musically.

Eisboch

I'm using a dbx 223. It's an opamp based analog crossover. There is a lot
of analog professional equipment hitting the used market these days since
most pros are going digital for crossovers, expanders, etc.