"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Just be careful. The last thing we need right now is yet another
presidential candidate.


I will not seek, nor will I accept ....

Eisboch



If you're a human vegetable, you have no choice. You're drafted. You get
a free presidential dog, a speech writer recruited from the rec.guns
newsgroup, and you start calling everyone "folks".

Please be careful.


I am. And will be.

I am 58 years old, raised three kids, am a law-abiding citizen, pay my
taxes, married for 38 years or something ....

All I want to do is ride my bike sometimes with the wind blowin' thru my
thinning hair ....

Is *that* really too much to ask ...?

Eisboch


Not at all. Just don't go splat on MY car, or your family's paying for the
wash, wax & detail job, and I'm talkin' same day, pal.

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:39:19 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:02:58 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:



Again, I am willing to bet that the loudest advocates of helmet laws don't
own a motorcycle.

Most likely the loudest advocates are relatives of dead or
brain-damaged former motorcycle owners.
That's usually how it works, ala MADD.

--Vic

I understand and am sympathetic to their loss.

But you have to realize that for every death or serious injury, there are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, that never crash or have an
accident.

I just proposed a possibility of who is behind pushing the laws.
Personally, I don't like being told to wear a helmet.
But, again personally, I don't ride.

--Vic



how these laws get

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:37:54 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 2, 1:31 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:02:58 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Again, I am willing to bet that the loudest advocates of helmet laws don't
own a motorcycle.

Most likely the loudest advocates are relatives of dead or
brain-damaged former motorcycle owners.
That's usually how it works, ala MADD.

--Vic

What percentage of members of MADD do you suppose meet your stated
specifics? One quarter of one percent mabey??


Doesn't matter if that percent pushes legislation and gets it passed.
That's just how it works.

--Vic

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
news
"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...


Just be careful. The last thing we need right now is yet another
presidential candidate.


I will not seek, nor will I accept ....

Eisboch



If you're a human vegetable, you have no choice. You're drafted. You get
a free presidential dog, a speech writer recruited from the rec.guns
newsgroup, and you start calling everyone "folks".

Please be careful.


I am. And will be.

I am 58 years old, raised three kids, am a law-abiding citizen, pay my
taxes, married for 38 years or something ....

All I want to do is ride my bike sometimes with the wind blowin' thru my
thinning hair ....

Is *that* really too much to ask ...?

Eisboch


Not at all. Just don't go splat on MY car, or your family's paying for the
wash, wax & detail job, and I'm talkin' same day, pal.


LOL. Deal.

Eisboch

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:37:54 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 2, 1:31 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:02:58 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Again, I am willing to bet that the loudest advocates of helmet laws
don't
own a motorcycle.

Most likely the loudest advocates are relatives of dead or
brain-damaged former motorcycle owners.
That's usually how it works, ala MADD.

--Vic

What percentage of members of MADD do you suppose meet your stated
specifics? One quarter of one percent mabey??


Doesn't matter if that percent pushes legislation and gets it passed.
That's just how it works.

--Vic

Exactly. And that's why it has taken 20 years for motorcycle enthusiasts to
slowly counteract the well meaning, but minority opinion that got the
politician's ears.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

No. There aren't any "No Helmet" laws that I know of.
There *are* many states .... about half .... that have some form of
"Helmet Law", although they are slowly being repealed, state by state.

I don't know this for a fact, so it's pure speculation on my part, but I
suspect that the majority of people that support helmet laws .... don't
ride motorcycles.

Eisboch


Maybe this will help:

http://usff.com/hldl/frames/50state.html

Or not.


Did you notice that only 20 states had a full, mandatory helmet law? That
leaves 30 that have modified and loosened their laws since the Fed tried
to strong arm all states to enact a helmet law or lose highway funding.
At one point almost all states had a full helmet law due to pressure from
the Fed.

I am not against wearing a helmet .... in fact I do on a regular basis.
My state has a full law and I obey it. I also often wear a helmet even in
states that don't require one. It all depends on where we are riding,
when, and what the weather and traffic conditions are. When I deem it
safe, (whether anybody else agrees or not) I sometimes take a ride
without one.

I think Florida's revised law is reasonable and fair. If you are over 18
or 21 (forget which) and can prove that you have a personal health
insurance policy that will cover you in the event of an accident, no
helmet is required by law. It's your choice.

Again, I am willing to bet that the loudest advocates of helmet laws don't
own a motorcycle.

Eisboch




I always wore a helmet when I rode, but I feel that it is a protective
device. I also feel that we have lost a lot of freedoms in this country (HK
will chime in here. Lots more than HK will refer to.) Is also a tax and
control law. Buddies, a lot of years ago, while riding in Oregon on a road
trip, saw that the entrance was on the other side of the diner and they
could not see their bikes with all the stuff on them where they were parked.
Moving the bikes from one side of the diner to the other, they got tickets
for no helmets. I also ware seatbelts, but that comes both from racing cars
and also when I was in high school I was sideswiped on 101 in Marin County.
The days when we did not have seat belts and I was knocked out of the
drivers seat and could not get control of the car until it was straddling a
ditch on the opposite side of the freeway. Also no barrier in the middle of
the road. Caused a lot of damage to car, the sideswipe did minimal damage,
but the crash did lots. Was a convertible, and luckily did not roll.

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...

Doesn't matter if that percent pushes legislation and gets it passed.
That's just how it works.

--Vic


BTW .... (and I am not accusing you ..... just using your post as a source
to reply) ...

There's a direct corollary to boating here. There are minority interest
groups constantly trying to restrict or ban boater's right to enjoy their
interests. Some are well founded, but many are simply attempts to restrict
boaters because "they" don't share the same interest.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:37:54 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Dec 2, 1:31 pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 13:02:58 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Again, I am willing to bet that the loudest advocates of helmet laws
don't
own a motorcycle.

Most likely the loudest advocates are relatives of dead or
brain-damaged former motorcycle owners.
That's usually how it works, ala MADD.

--Vic

What percentage of members of MADD do you suppose meet your stated
specifics? One quarter of one percent mabey??


Doesn't matter if that percent pushes legislation and gets it passed.
That's just how it works.

--Vic

Exactly. And that's why it has taken 20 years for motorcycle enthusiasts
to slowly counteract the well meaning, but minority opinion that got the
politician's ears.

Eisboch


The minority probably reacts to losing one of the adults in the family,
which may make them dependent on outside sources of support. We all know
what that means: Demonized by certain "types". The 54%, in other words.

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
. ..
D.Duck wrote:
"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:08:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

If a law went into effect tomorrow that mandated helmets in every
state, by
how much would your current taxes, vehicle insurance and health
insurance
premiums be reduced by?
I agree with you on this - it wouldn't make a whit of difference.

My argument is that the same logic behind no helmet laws should also
be applied to seat belts - personal choice.

And the odd thing is that the "safety" statistics for seat belt use
being more safe than not is highly fabricated and, frankly, false.

I really don't care one way or another. I have no idea what the data
shows.

Why are there such laws in place if it doesn't help?

Not trying to argue, just get some points of view.

I find it hard to believe that insurance companies, who actually know the
cost, would promote anything that would cost them more money. If seat
belts and helmets were not safer, insurance companies would aggressively
fight against the laws.

Insurance companies make more money when they pay out more money. Sounds
strange, but everytine they have to pay out more money they raise rates, and
they make a percentage of the rates as profit. Higher rates, higher profit.

On Sun, 2 Dec 2007 10:08:22 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .

On Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:07:58 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


Why? If some moron wants to ride a motorcycle without a helmet, who
cares?
If you're stupid enough to think you're immune to head injuries, the gene
pool is better off without you. Give this 200 years and the 54% might
shrink
a bit.


I care if his death or injury results in higher taxes or insurance
premiums.



If a law went into effect tomorrow that mandated helmets in every state, by
how much would your current taxes, vehicle insurance and health insurance
premiums be reduced by?


Eisboch


I don't know. But I believe the number of severe head injuries due to
motorcycle accidents would go down.
--
John H