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Old November 30th 07, 03:57 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

This time it was three guys from NJ.

Apparently they thought the primary purpose of having PFD aboard a
small boat was to palacate the USCG in case of inspection.

What a shame. Considering wives, kids, friends, coworkers, employers,
employees, and family members there are maybe hundreds of people
affected by each of these deaths, so it isn't entirely or solely a
personal decision.

We can only hope their possibly needless deaths will serve as
instructional examples

**************************
Boat capsizes off NJ coast, killing 3; second fatal fishing accident
since Wednesday
AP
Posted: 2007-11-29 20:04:19
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) - A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said
Thursday.

The 25-foot pleasure boat carrying the men was reported missing by a
friend Wednesday night when they didn't return.

The Coast Guard searched through the night for the men using boats, a
helicopter and a plane. A helicopter crew member using night-vision
goggles spotted the boat early Thursday and the bodies of Mark Stroud
and Danny Pavic, both of Galloway.

A salvage crew sent to recover the boat found the body of Jerry
Berwick, 64, of Philadelphia, inside the cabin Thursday afternoon, the
Coast Guard said.

Coast Guard Spokesman Nyx Cangemi said that there were life jackets on
the boat, but that the men were not wearing them. The water
temperature was about 50 degrees, he said.

Officials were waiting for a medical examiner to identify the body.

The men launched from Oyster Creek and were headed for Little Egg
Inlet, which is about 10 miles north of where their boat was found.

The search follows another fishing accident Wednesday in which a 72-
year-old man was killed after being trapped underneath a capsized boat
in Maurice River Township. Two others survived.

..


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Old November 30th 07, 05:34 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???
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Old November 30th 07, 06:15 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance

All without any evidence of such.
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Old November 30th 07, 06:30 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance

All without any evidence of such.



Not totally without evidence of #1 or #3.

If NJ has been anything like upstate NY during the past week, it may've been
caused by insane wind surprises, although they shouldn't have come as a
surprise to anyone who checks the weather reports. At this time of year, any
time we're blessed with a warm front for a day or two, it's ALWAYS followed
by raucous wind as the cold front follows, and we end up with falling tree
limbs & other surprises.

Perhaps those guys didn't pay attention to the weather reports. I mean,
*something* caused the boat to capsize. What theories could you suggest?


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Old November 30th 07, 06:56 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Nov 30, 10:15´┐Żam, wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance

All without any evidence of such.


There is nothing in the story to indicate alcohol was a factor.

Stupidity? Ignorance? Maybe extreme........but carelessness can be
inferred from the fact that they were out in a small boat in the North
Atlantic, during late November, and not a single one of them thought
to put on a PFD. The jackets were apparently all aboard, just as
*required* by the USCG...

They may or may not have survived had they been wearing pfd.

In 50 degree water, the major challenges would include:

1) remaining conscious after hitting the water. It's not tough to
imagine getting a conk on the head as the boat turns over, and there
is a lot of evidence that many people go into cardiac arrest as a
result cold water immersion. If three guys go in wearing PFD, and one
gets conked out, the other two have a better chance of grabbing him
and keeping his face out of the water than if they're using every bit
of strength available just to try to keep themselves afloat.

2) avoiding hypothermia. Almost impossible without a survival suit or
getting out of the water. If the boat was still floating, upside down,
wearing a pfd *might* provide just the extra flotation and lift needed
to
haul out onto the wreckage instead of remaining in the water. The cold
air will also result in hypothermia, but it takes longer for 40 degree
air to cool the body than 50 degree water, particularly if any portion
of the clothing is dry.

3) summoning help. Options are pretty limited if you don't have a
personal ebirb attached to the PFD, but whatever the options are they
will be better if the boater is conscious and afloat. Hopefully the
small boat was rigged with a ditch bag, and that should be floating
somewhere nearby with a portable VHF, a couple of flares, and some
basic survival stuff. Retrieving the ditch bag will be much easier if
any sort of cold water "swim" to its location is assisted by PFD


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Old November 30th 07, 07:18 PM posted to rec.boats
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Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 10:15?am, wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:

On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance

All without any evidence of such.


There is nothing in the story to indicate alcohol was a factor.

Stupidity? Ignorance? Maybe extreme........but carelessness can be
inferred from the fact that they were out in a small boat in the North
Atlantic, during late November, and not a single one of them thought
to put on a PFD. The jackets were apparently all aboard, just as
*required* by the USCG...


++++++++++

Next week's news:

Families of 3 fishermen suing CG, boat mfr and the Atlantic Ocean for
negligence.


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Old November 30th 07, 07:30 PM posted to rec.boats
HK HK is offline
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Posts: 13,347
Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

Chuck Gould wrote:
This time it was three guys from NJ.

Apparently they thought the primary purpose of having PFD aboard a
small boat was to palacate the USCG in case of inspection.

What a shame. Considering wives, kids, friends, coworkers, employers,
employees, and family members there are maybe hundreds of people
affected by each of these deaths, so it isn't entirely or solely a
personal decision.

We can only hope their possibly needless deaths will serve as
instructional examples

**************************
Boat capsizes off NJ coast, killing 3; second fatal fishing accident
since Wednesday
AP
Posted: 2007-11-29 20:04:19
ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. (AP) - A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said
Thursday.

The 25-foot pleasure boat carrying the men was reported missing by a
friend Wednesday night when they didn't return.

The Coast Guard searched through the night for the men using boats, a
helicopter and a plane. A helicopter crew member using night-vision
goggles spotted the boat early Thursday and the bodies of Mark Stroud
and Danny Pavic, both of Galloway.

A salvage crew sent to recover the boat found the body of Jerry
Berwick, 64, of Philadelphia, inside the cabin Thursday afternoon, the
Coast Guard said.

Coast Guard Spokesman Nyx Cangemi said that there were life jackets on
the boat, but that the men were not wearing them. The water
temperature was about 50 degrees, he said.

Officials were waiting for a medical examiner to identify the body.

The men launched from Oyster Creek and were headed for Little Egg
Inlet, which is about 10 miles north of where their boat was found.

The search follows another fishing accident Wednesday in which a 72-
year-old man was killed after being trapped underneath a capsized boat
in Maurice River Township. Two others survived.

.


Here's a local news story on the same accident:

Boat capsizes off Atlantic City, killing three fishermen



The waters off southern New Jersey claimed more lives, and emergency
personnel recovered the bodies Thursday of three fishermen after their
boat, *the Knucklehead,* capsized in the Atlantic Ocean.

The U.S. Coast Guard retrieved the bodies of Danny Pavic, of Galloway
Township, Atlantic County, and Mark Stroud, 45, of Philadelphia, from
the chilly waters about 5 miles off Atlantic City shortly after 1:10
a.m. Thursday.

The body of the third member of their party, Philadelphia resident Jerry
Berwick, was discovered in the cabin of the Knucklehead when it was
righted by a boat-towing company at the scene at about
1 p.m. Thursday.

The Knucklehead was towed Thursday afternoon to Somers Point, where it
was raised out of the water after being pumped dry.

The discovery of the capsized Knucklehead follows a search for Pavic,
Stroud and Berwick that began after friends reported at about 5:45 p.m.
Wednesday that the 25-foot pleasure boat, owned by Stroud, was overdue.
That report caused the Coast Guard to launch helicopters, planes and
boats to look for the men and their craft.

The search that turned up the Knucklehead and its three fishermen was
the second search of the day by the Coast Guard - although it's unclear
whether the first search actually was for the Knucklehead: Coast Guard
spokesman Petty Officer Nyx Cangemi said helicopters were dispatched
Wednesday morning after two boats reported hearing a distress call of,
"May Day, May Day, May Day, we're going down." The distress call was
made on a channel that the Coast Guard normally does not monitor, he said.

Cangemi said the distress call did not include a location, and the Coast
Guard used the positions of the two reporting boats as a base area for
its search. The search turned up nothing, and the distress call isn't
being linked to the Knucklehead, he said. He also said no other vessels
were reported missing or overdue.

The bodies of Pavic and Stroud were brought by boat to the Coast Guard
base in Atlantic City. Atlantic County Medical Examiner Dr. Hydow Park
performed autopsies Thursday afternoon. A spokeswoman for Park's office
said results would be forwarded to the Coast Guard for public release.
Coast Guard officials said the results more likely will be reported to
the State Police Marine Services Bureau.

Berwick's body was brought ashore Thursday afternoon at the Shamrock
Towing yard in Somers Point. An autopsy also is planned to be performed
on his body.

The cause of the boat's capsizing is unknown.

Coast Guard spokesman Petty Officer Christopher McLaughlin said the seas
were running at about three feet and winds were blowing from the west at
about five to 10 knots on Wednesday. "It wasn't like a bad weather day,"
he said.

But McLaughlin said the water temperature was such that "you could get
hypothermia pretty quick."

The water temperature was about 49 degrees off the Steel Pier at noon
Wednesday.

Coast Guard officials said the men weren't wearing lifejackets, but had
them on board the boat.

Tearful members of Stroud's family, gathered in a darkened house they
own on Oyster Creek in Galloway Township, provided little information:
They said Stroud, Pavic and Berwick left Oyster Creek - located about 10
miles north of where the Knucklehead eventually was found - for their
fishing trip at about 6:30 a.m. Wednesday. They wouldn't comment further.

"We don't want publicity," said a woman who identified herself as
Stroud's mother.

Pavic owned the M & M Motel on Route 9 in Galloway Township.

A house in front of the motel had "Closed" and "No Trespassing" signs on
its door. A row of orange highway cones stopped access to the parking
lot in front of the motel's rooms at the back of the property.

People familiar with Pavic said he stayed to himself and had been a
painting contractor for some time.

To e-mail Thomas Barlas at The Press:





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Old November 30th 07, 08:55 PM posted to rec.boats
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Posts: 7,892
Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Nov 30, 1:35 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 10:15:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance


All without any evidence of such.


Well... They were from New Jersey!


True, true!
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Old November 30th 07, 08:58 PM posted to rec.boats
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Posts: 7,892
Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Nov 30, 1:56┬*pm, Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:15´┐Żam, wrote:

On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:


On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance


All without any evidence of such.


There is nothing in the story to indicate alcohol was a factor.

Stupidity? Ignorance? ┬*Maybe extreme........but carelessness can be
inferred from the fact that they were out in a small boat in the North
Atlantic, during late November, and not a single one of them thought
to put on a PFD.


You know, everyone takes a risk once in awhile, and it doesn't make
them necessarily careless. Do you walk around all of the time with a
radioactive proof suit on in case of nuclear fallout? Do you wear
steel toed boots all of the time in case someone or yourself drops
something on your foot?
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Old November 30th 07, 11:38 PM posted to rec.boats
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Posts: 3,117
Default Yet Another Tragic Case......

On Nov 30, 12:58┬*pm, wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:56┬*pm, Chuck Gould wrote:





On Nov 30, 10:15´┐Żam, wrote:


On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, wrote:


On Fri, 30 Nov 07, Chuck Gould wrote:
A boat capsized about five miles from
shore, killing the three fishermen on board, authorities said


No word on what caused the boat to capsize???


The usual suspects will blame it on
1. Stupidity
2. Alcohol
3. Ignorance


All without any evidence of such.


There is nothing in the story to indicate alcohol was a factor.


Stupidity? Ignorance? ┬*Maybe extreme........but carelessness can be
inferred from the fact that they were out in a small boat in the North
Atlantic, during late November, and not a single one of them thought
to put on a PFD.


You know, everyone takes a risk once in awhile, and it doesn't make
them necessarily careless. Do you walk around all of the time with a
radioactive proof suit on in case of nuclear fallout? Do you wear
steel toed boots all of the time in case someone or yourself drops
something on your foot?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I would indeed wear a radiation suit if working around nuclear waste.
I would wear steel toed boots if working in an industrial environment
where heavy objects were being hoisted about. And I would wear a PFD
in a 25-foot boat bouncing around in 50-degree ocean water in
November, (at least an inflatable or maybe a float coat) as would
nearly almost all professional mariners.

What is the "upside" of the risk assumed by eschewing the PFD?
Sustaining a more "macho" appearance? How fricking macho do these guys
look stretched out on a slab in the morgue, fer crissake?

Then there's the old "it's my life, I'll risk it" BS. Unfortunately,
society doesn't work that way.

I'd be OK with a system where the guy who chooses not to wear a
motorcyle helmet or a pfd agrees that in any situation where his
choice to avoid mitigating his personal risk develops into an
emergency the paramedics, USCG, etc can elect *not* to respond. That's
what taking the risk means. As it is now, the people who refuse to
take basic safety precautions not only risk their own lives, but they
cost the rest of us $$$$$$$$$$ in S&R costs, publicly subsidized
medical care, welfare and Social Security payments made to orphaned
children, etc.



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