The demise of a great boat...
 

HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that the Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both wage and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of the
Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary job
skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on time,
sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job corps provides
pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste of the sort of
skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your knowledge
base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than those
basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

No I got into the Marines because I wanted to enlist.

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know nothing.

I have never head anyone talk about what a great start in the working
world they received from the Job Corps. In fact other than you and The
Washington Post I never hear anything about the Job Corps.

The demise of a great boat...
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that
the Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both
wage and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of
the Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary
job skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on
time, sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job
corps provides pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste
of the sort of skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your
knowledge base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than
those basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know
nothing.

Harry,
Have you noticed that you are the only person in rec.boats who knows
what they are talking about. SWS,Eisboch and everyone else in here
is dumb as dirt and right wing idiots who ignore all science.



I doubt SWS, Eisboch, or you have ever had any significant direct
experience working with job corps instructors, programs, or students.
Three of my long-time union clients have been involved with various
job corps programs for decades, and I have been a frequent visitor to
their training schools, and have kept in touch over the years with a
couple of job corps grads who went on to complete a full union
apprenticeship program.

I've never referred to Eisboch or SWS as right-wing idiots or dumb as
dirt, nor have I entertained any thoughts at any time that they were.

Didn't you say that Eisboch and SWS refused to listen to science and
only the right wing seem to do that?


No, Reggie, I never posted that. But I'm sure we all appreciate your
efforts at demonization, a**hole that you are.

Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:35:08 -0500, BAR wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that
the Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both
wage and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of
the Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary
job skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on
time, sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job
corps provides pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste
of the sort of skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your
knowledge base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than
those basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know
nothing.

Harry,
Have you noticed that you are the only person in rec.boats who knows
what they are talking about. SWS,Eisboch and everyone else in here
is dumb as dirt and right wing idiots who ignore all science.



I doubt SWS, Eisboch, or you have ever had any significant direct
experience working with job corps instructors, programs, or students.
Three of my long-time union clients have been involved with various
job corps programs for decades, and I have been a frequent visitor to
their training schools, and have kept in touch over the years with a
couple of job corps grads who went on to complete a full union
apprenticeship program.

I've never referred to Eisboch or SWS as right-wing idiots or dumb as
dirt, nor have I entertained any thoughts at any time that they were.

Didn't you say that Eisboch and SWS refused to listen to science and
only the right wing seem to do that?


No, Reggie, I never posted that. But I'm sure we all appreciate your
efforts at demonization, a**hole that you are.

Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.

Harry loses no matter who he challenges. SWS and Eisboch are patient souls.
--
John H

The demise of a great boat...
 

"John H." wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 17:35:08 -0500, BAR wrote:

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that
the Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both
wage and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of
the Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for
grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary
job skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on
time, sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job
corps provides pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste
of the sort of skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your
knowledge base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than
those basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know
nothing.

Harry,
Have you noticed that you are the only person in rec.boats who knows
what they are talking about. SWS,Eisboch and everyone else in here
is dumb as dirt and right wing idiots who ignore all science.



I doubt SWS, Eisboch, or you have ever had any significant direct
experience working with job corps instructors, programs, or students.
Three of my long-time union clients have been involved with various
job corps programs for decades, and I have been a frequent visitor to
their training schools, and have kept in touch over the years with a
couple of job corps grads who went on to complete a full union
apprenticeship program.

I've never referred to Eisboch or SWS as right-wing idiots or dumb as
dirt, nor have I entertained any thoughts at any time that they were.

Didn't you say that Eisboch and SWS refused to listen to science and
only the right wing seem to do that?


No, Reggie, I never posted that. But I'm sure we all appreciate your
efforts at demonization, a**hole that you are.

Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.

Harry loses no matter who he challenges. SWS and Eisboch are patient
souls.
--
John H

Well well, I see you're back to your old 'facilliator' role...trying to stir
up trouble between peaceful members of this group.
John... you need more help than anyone in this newsgroup can offer. Go see
a professional before it's too late.

The demise of a great boat...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...

Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.



Harry's loose again?

Eisboch

The demise of a great boat...
 

"BAR" wrote in message
...



Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.


I don't regard discussion of issues as a "challenge" or something to win or
lose. It's an exchange of views, sometimes heated, whereby your POV may
become modified or made more concrete.

I agree with him and others on many subjects and disagree with him and
others on other things.

I have the same relationship with many people, including myself sometimes.

If you engage in a discussion with the primary purpose of "winning" .... you
lose.

Eisboch

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:55:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:


"BAR" wrote in message
...



Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.


I don't regard discussion of issues as a "challenge" or something to win or
lose. It's an exchange of views, sometimes heated, whereby your POV may
become modified or made more concrete.

I agree with him and others on many subjects and disagree with him and
others on other things.

I have the same relationship with many people, including myself sometimes.

If you engage in a discussion with the primary purpose of "winning" .... you
lose.

Amen.

The demise of a great boat...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:55:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...


Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.

I don't regard discussion of issues as a "challenge" or something to win or
lose. It's an exchange of views, sometimes heated, whereby your POV may
become modified or made more concrete.

I agree with him and others on many subjects and disagree with him and
others on other things.

I have the same relationship with many people, including myself sometimes.

If you engage in a discussion with the primary purpose of "winning" .... you
lose.

Amen.


I hear your transom sags more than mine.

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 20:08:16 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:55:16 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

"BAR" wrote in message
...


Harry won't challenge either SWS or Eisboch, Harry knows he would loose.

I don't regard discussion of issues as a "challenge" or something to win or
lose. It's an exchange of views, sometimes heated, whereby your POV may
become modified or made more concrete.

I agree with him and others on many subjects and disagree with him and
others on other things.

I have the same relationship with many people, including myself sometimes.

If you engage in a discussion with the primary purpose of "winning" .... you
lose.

Amen.

I hear your transom sags more than mine.

My transom doesn't sag.

It's artfully arranged.

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Nov 24, 7:04 am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 07:29:51 -0500, "Reginald P. Smithers III"





wrote:
HK wrote:

Ha! In the typical union model, the union runs the apprenticeship
programs for the three to five year course of study, depending upon the
trade, and once they complete the courses and training, they are
considered journeymen and are eligible to take the licensing
examinations. I'm not familiar with what Connecticut does, but the model
I cited is prevalent most other places. A decent number of young
apprentices enter the program after completing a 12-week Job Corps
program in which they learn basic "work" skills and a little bit about
the trades.

If the Union is able to provide a better product with increased
productivity and competitive prices as you say, why are they continuing
to lose market share?

That's the point - they don't pay competitive wages. Unnion wages are
always higher by a factor of 25/30% higher than a similar gualified
wage earner.

Take Painters for example. A Union painter base is $26 an hour to a
max of $30 here in CT. Work rules are restrictive in terms of hours,
breaks and travel. I can hire an equally qualified non-Union painter
for less than $15 who will do the job in less time and, in my
experience, better.

I'll give you a work restriction example. When I was helping my
dealer at a boat show, the venue electricians were Union. We needed
to run a 6' extension cord from an outlet right behind the display to
a DVD player. We ran the extension cord, secured it behind the
display with 200 MPH tape to the concrete floor and hooked it up to
the DVD player.

NO NO NO. Had to have an electrician do that. So the electrician
came along and did exactly the same thing we did only it cost the
dealer $80 for five minutes work.

Unions have their place and I am not anti-Union. However they have
priced themselves out of the market place becoming a business just
like any other business.

In my lifetime, I have even seen Unions within Union organizations
strike Unions.

That kind of says it all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



A friend of mine was working a booth for his regulator company at a
rather large Auto-electric show in a stadiums convention center. There
was power to all the booths, and the ownder of the company was
providing cpmplimentery coffee and donuts. About an hour after opening
up the display, some guy came over and was a real hot head, and
started to confiscate the coffee machine and the donut boxs. After
some rather loud words, the guy grabbing the goods exploded with the
idea that there would be no more of that because the concessions were
union and they SELL the same thing at the kitchens. Words got hotter,
and the union dude took the coffe pot and boxs and threw them in a
close by dumpster. The company president that had the booth, called
the cops and pressed formal charges on the guy for tresspassing,
theft, and destruction of personal property, and probably some more
stuff as well. After doing the routine and questioning the union guy,
the guy got louder and beligerant . They walked the union dude out in
handcuffs. I really don't rememeber the total outcome of the big
picture, but the Company owner/CEO was rich enough, he would tie this
guy up in court for "as long as it takes". I do know that one
arguement that was allowed in court was that the Pres/ceo had PAID to
rent the space, and that it was his to do with what ever he pleased,
just like renting a house and that this arguement was upheld by the
court. And seeing the convention center had no fine print in the
rental contract about ofering complimentary food items, the union dude
was found guilty of the above charges, and had to make restitution. I
don't know if he personally paid for the damages or if the Union did
and I suppose it doesn't matter. But my point is that if they guy had
simply asked the CEO not to hand out the free goodies, I'm sure he
would have graciously complied, and there wouldn't have been a rukus.
But hwne you start shoving your weight around, somebody will
eventually shove back, and shove harder.