Mrs. Wave and I traveled over to the new Bass Pro Shops in Foxboro
today at Patriot's Place.

Anyway, I was walking around while Mrs. Wave was purchasing her sale
goodies. Got a really close look at a Mako 26 CC and almost cried.

There wasn't a straight line on the boat. Run your hand along the
gunwale and all you felt were bumps. Look down the chine and you
could see where they filled in areas. The gel coat was awful - you
could see little swirls and obvious after the fact repairs.

Inside the boat, the same thing - look down the freeboard and there
wasn't a perfectly flat surface the entire length - you could actually
see the imperfections. Ran my hand down the side and you could feel
it. The rub rails were not correctly installed - you could see where
the screws holding the rail on were either incompletely installed or
at an angle - you could feel it. The T-Top had gaps between the
structure and the console - you could grab the top and actually shake
it indicating thin wall tubing. I looked inside the console and there
was wiring everywhere - the bundles weren't organized in any sense of
the word and generally left hanging.

It appeared endemic to the other Makos including the smaller bay boats
- all had blemished in the gel coat, straight lines seemed nonexistant
and the workmanship just gave the impression of being - well,
incomplete to be polite.

It kind of bummed me out. Compared to the Nitro bass boats that is.

Which is a whole 'nother story. Talk about cheaply built.

Anyway...

It's a great experience by the way - I really like the way the store
is set up. I'd like to spend some more time but it was really crowded
and I hate crowds. Didn't stop me from making some purchases though -
got a couple of new heavy boat rods (can't make them for that money)
and they have a great fly/do-it-yourself section.

On Nov 23, 3:23�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
Mrs. Wave and I traveled over to the new Bass Pro Shops in Foxboro
today at Patriot's Place.

Anyway, I was walking around while Mrs. Wave was purchasing her sale
goodies. �Got a really close look at a Mako 26 CC and almost cried..

There wasn't a straight line on the boat. �Run your hand along the
gunwale and all you felt were bumps. �Look down the chine and you
could see where they filled in areas. �The gel coat was awful - you
could see little swirls and obvious after the fact repairs.

Inside the boat, the same thing - look down the freeboard and there
wasn't a perfectly flat surface the entire length - you could actually
see the imperfections. �Ran my hand down the side and you could feel
it. �The rub rails were not correctly installed - you could see where
the screws holding the rail on were either incompletely installed or
at an angle - you could feel it. �The T-Top had gaps between the
structure and the console - you could grab the top and actually shake
it indicating thin wall tubing. �I looked inside the console and there
was wiring everywhere - the bundles weren't organized in any sense of
the word and generally left hanging.

It appeared endemic to the other Makos including the smaller bay boats
- all had blemished in the gel coat, straight lines seemed nonexistant
and the workmanship just gave the impression of being - well,
incomplete to be polite.

It kind of bummed me out. �Compared to the Nitro bass boats that is.

Which is a whole 'nother story. �Talk about cheaply built.

Anyway...

It's a great experience by the way - I really like the way the store
is set up. �I'd like to spend some more time but it was really crowded
and I hate crowds. �Didn't stop me from making some purchases though -
got a couple of new heavy boat rods (can't make them for that money)
and they have a great fly/do-it-yourself section.

What this country needs is to stop assuming that everybody smart
enough to do so needs to go to college. There ought to be a first
class trade school and/or union apprenticeship program available to
people so they can learn to build and/or repair things properly. The
way the system works now, we teach the kids to look down on anybody
that doesn't have a "white collar" job, so some of the boat
manufacturers are forced to hire the dumb-as-a-post screwups, often of
dubious immigration status.

Decent plumbers and electricians can get plenty of work that will
never be sent "offshore", and a six-figure income is a realistic
possibility for a sharp, hard working individual.

Part of the problem is that some of the manufacturers seem afraid of
quality, or at least afraid of what it would do to their shares of the
market if people were asked to pay for good workmanship. And not just
boats.

One thing, though, that could be a possibilty: Isn't that a big chain
operation? Wonder if there isn't (at least unofficially) a "quick and
dirty" series slapped together to allow cheapie pricing? Or, possibly,
whether the retailer gets a screaming deal on all the reject layups?

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:37:52 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:


What this country needs is to stop assuming that everybody smart
enough to do so needs to go to college. There ought to be a first
class trade school and/or union apprenticeship program available to
people so they can learn to build and/or repair things properly. The
way the system works now, we teach the kids to look down on anybody
that doesn't have a "white collar" job, so some of the boat
manufacturers are forced to hire the dumb-as-a-post screwups, often of
dubious immigration status.

Decent plumbers and electricians can get plenty of work that will
never be sent "offshore", and a six-figure income is a realistic
possibility for a sharp, hard working individual.

I agree - totally.

The problem, at least here in CT, are the apprenticeship rules the
state adopted. We have a top flight state tech school system and the
kids who go through the programs are motivated. The problem with the
electrical/plumber programs comes after graduation. Each licensed
plumber or electrician can only have one apprentice. With dictated
pay scales and full benefits, plus mandated insurance costs, the
package costs the employer more than he can afford for each
apprentice. So for independant electricians/plumbers are in a losing
proposition even if they want to take on apprentices. Add in the time
required, even with school credits, to make Journeyman status and they
flat out can't afford it.

The bigger companies who can afford to take on apprentices for their
Masters are limited to one per Master. I've spoken to several Masters
who have told me their hands are tied and until the state loosens the
rules, the shortage is only going to get worse.

Part of the problem is that some of the manufacturers seem afraid of
quality, or at least afraid of what it would do to their shares of the
market if people were asked to pay for good workmanship. And not just
boats.

That makes sense to me.

One thing, though, that could be a possibilty: Isn't that a big chain
operation? Wonder if there isn't (at least unofficially) a "quick and
dirty" series slapped together to allow cheapie pricing? Or, possibly,
whether the retailer gets a screaming deal on all the reject layups?

Cheapie pricing? $90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.

Johnny Morris bought, in succession, Trophy and went to the well with
those boats degrading the over all quality. Then he bought Mako and
apparently did the same thing. If he follows form, the same thing
will happen to Seacraft.

Another example is Nitro. Outwardly, they seem to be well made.
However, compare weights and really look close - the carpet is cheap,
the boats are extremely light, vinyl is thin and you can scratch the
gell coat just by looking at it wrong.

In my opinion, they took a great boat line, went cheap on the
manufacturing, loosened up the quality control and rely on the once
great name to sell them.

I was always a fan of Mako - never owned one, but I know guys who have
them and was always impressed with form, fit and function - they were
really tough boats and nice looking. They had a true innovation with
the long forefoot and trailing deep vee which made them a real
performer in heavy water - even in the smaller boats. These boats
look like every other CC on the market, only worse in terms of
quality.

I was - well, not shocked certainly, but disappointed.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:37:52 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:


What this country needs is to stop assuming that everybody smart
enough to do so needs to go to college. There ought to be a first
class trade school and/or union apprenticeship program available to
people so they can learn to build and/or repair things properly. The
way the system works now, we teach the kids to look down on anybody
that doesn't have a "white collar" job, so some of the boat
manufacturers are forced to hire the dumb-as-a-post screwups, often of
dubious immigration status.

Decent plumbers and electricians can get plenty of work that will
never be sent "offshore", and a six-figure income is a realistic
possibility for a sharp, hard working individual.

I agree - totally.

The problem, at least here in CT, are the apprenticeship rules the
state adopted. We have a top flight state tech school system and the
kids who go through the programs are motivated. The problem with the
electrical/plumber programs comes after graduation. Each licensed
plumber or electrician can only have one apprentice. With dictated
pay scales and full benefits, plus mandated insurance costs, the
package costs the employer more than he can afford for each
apprentice. So for independant electricians/plumbers are in a losing
proposition even if they want to take on apprentices. Add in the time
required, even with school credits, to make Journeyman status and they
flat out can't afford it.

The bigger companies who can afford to take on apprentices for their
Masters are limited to one per Master. I've spoken to several Masters
who have told me their hands are tied and until the state loosens the
rules, the shortage is only going to get worse.

Part of the problem is that some of the manufacturers seem afraid of
quality, or at least afraid of what it would do to their shares of the
market if people were asked to pay for good workmanship. And not just
boats.

That makes sense to me.

One thing, though, that could be a possibilty: Isn't that a big chain
operation? Wonder if there isn't (at least unofficially) a "quick and
dirty" series slapped together to allow cheapie pricing? Or, possibly,
whether the retailer gets a screaming deal on all the reject layups?

Cheapie pricing? $90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.

Johnny Morris bought, in succession, Trophy and went to the well with
those boats degrading the over all quality. Then he bought Mako and
apparently did the same thing. If he follows form, the same thing
will happen to Seacraft.

Another example is Nitro. Outwardly, they seem to be well made.
However, compare weights and really look close - the carpet is cheap,
the boats are extremely light, vinyl is thin and you can scratch the
gell coat just by looking at it wrong.

In my opinion, they took a great boat line, went cheap on the
manufacturing, loosened up the quality control and rely on the once
great name to sell them.

I was always a fan of Mako - never owned one, but I know guys who have
them and was always impressed with form, fit and function - they were
really tough boats and nice looking. They had a true innovation with
the long forefoot and trailing deep vee which made them a real
performer in heavy water - even in the smaller boats. These boats
look like every other CC on the market, only worse in terms of
quality.

I was - well, not shocked certainly, but disappointed.

Their prices are even more alarming. Then walk over to the SeaCraft
boats. 25% more for...nothing.

-dk

On Nov 23, 4:21�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


Cheapie pricing? �$90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". �I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.


Isn't that his wife's 36-footer? He's only asking $120k? Is it a
woodie?
Even if, that might be cheap.

When the "buyer's market" goes into overdrive next spring, some
enterprising guy can probably make a good living hauling trawlers from
the east coast (where they are underappreciated) up to the NW. He
could backhaul sportfishers, for the same reason.

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 4:21?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


Cheapie pricing? ?$90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". ?I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.


---------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that his wife's 36-footer? He's only asking $120k? Is it a
woodie?
Even if, that might be cheap.

When the "buyer's market" goes into overdrive next spring, some
enterprising guy can probably make a good living hauling trawlers from
the east coast (where they are underappreciated) up to the NW. He
could backhaul sportfishers, for the same reason.

---------------------------------------------------------


Two boat brokers here in New England have told me of thier observations of
the general local market. Boat sales are slow and those that *are* selling
are usually to someone out of state.

We actually had someone from your neck of the woods considering the
Navigator. Apparently my asking price plus the estimated cost to ship from
the east coast to west coast was still less than the current market value of
a similar Navigator on the west coast.
Last we knew they were getting shipping cost details, but I doubt we'll hear
from them again.

I am still going back and forth on this but, for now, the Navigator is
officially off the market. The cost to replace it is ridiculous and there's
nothing wrong with it or it's systems.

We'll try selling the GB again next spring. BTW ... it is not wood ... it's
glass. 1982 vintage.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Chuck Gould" wrote in message
...
On Nov 23, 4:21?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


Cheapie pricing? ?$90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". ?I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.


---------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that his wife's 36-footer? He's only asking $120k? Is it a
woodie?
Even if, that might be cheap.

When the "buyer's market" goes into overdrive next spring, some
enterprising guy can probably make a good living hauling trawlers from
the east coast (where they are underappreciated) up to the NW. He
could backhaul sportfishers, for the same reason.

---------------------------------------------------------


Two boat brokers here in New England have told me of thier observations of
the general local market. Boat sales are slow and those that *are*
selling are usually to someone out of state.

We actually had someone from your neck of the woods considering the
Navigator. Apparently my asking price plus the estimated cost to ship
from the east coast to west coast was still less than the current market
value of a similar Navigator on the west coast.
Last we knew they were getting shipping cost details, but I doubt we'll
hear from them again.

I am still going back and forth on this but, for now, the Navigator is
officially off the market. The cost to replace it is ridiculous and
there's nothing wrong with it or it's systems.

We'll try selling the GB again next spring. BTW ... it is not wood ...
it's glass. 1982 vintage.

Eisboch

We don't see a lot of trawler style boats up here, although they'd be
perfect for our cool damp climate.

On Nov 24, 12:27�am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message

...
On Nov 23, 4:21?pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:



Cheapie pricing? ?$90,000 for a 26 CC with a 250 Optimax isn't exactly
"cheap". ?I can add thirty thousand to that and buy Eisboch's Grand
Banks which is one hell of a boat.

---------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that his wife's 36-footer? He's only asking $120k? Is it a
woodie?
Even if, that might be cheap.

When the "buyer's market" goes into overdrive next spring, some
enterprising guy can probably make a good living hauling trawlers from
the east coast (where they are underappreciated) up to the NW. He
could backhaul sportfishers, for the same reason.

---------------------------------------------------------

Two boat brokers here in New England have told me of thier observations of
the general local market. �Boat sales are slow and those that *are* selling
are usually to someone out of state.

We actually had someone from your neck of the woods considering the
Navigator. �Apparently my asking price plus the estimated cost to ship from
the east coast to west coast was still less than the current market value of
a similar Navigator on the west coast.
Last we knew they were getting shipping cost details, but I doubt we'll hear
from them again.

I am still going back and forth on this but, for now, the Navigator is
officially off the market. �The cost to replace it is ridiculous and there's
nothing wrong with it or it's systems.

We'll try selling the GB again next spring. �BTW ... it is not wood ... it's
glass. �1982 vintage.

Eisboch

There are three 36 -foot glass GB's listed on Yachtworld in the
Pacific NW, 1980-1984. (It's ok to look at a range of years on most
boats, and the older the boat, the wider the range. Probably could
have done 78-86...)

One of them has a "sale pending", and the asking price was $169k.
Another is on the market for just under $160k, and the third is up in
BC- represented as "the finest example of a 36 Classic we have ever
listed" and they're asking $203k US.

At $120k, your boat could very easily sell to somebody from the W
Coast. My guess is that it could be trucked out for about
$20,000...but it's been a while since I've been involved with
transporting a boat and costs may be up more than I realize. Should be
able to use a 40-foot trailer, and with the flybridge cowling removed
it *might* clear a majority of the overpasses...can't say for sure.

The W Coast market is pretty active starting in January, when we hold
our big boat show. Waiting until spring, you will enjoy the seasonal
uptick in the general market but this year you run the risk of the
general economic climate getting a bit gloomier as the months go by.
When things slow down to a crawl, the desperate folks who *must* sell,
under any circumstance, will pull the market value down on all boats.

If you'd like to get some phone calls about your GB from the W coast,
send me an email. I have a way to make that happen for you.

On Nov 23, 6:21�pm, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:


Johnny Morris bought, in succession, Trophy and went to the well with
those boats degrading the over all quality. ...

In my opinion, they took a great boat line, went cheap on the
manufacturing, loosened up the quality control and rely on the once
great name to sell them.


Seen that done many times. Especially witht he british automotive
industries. British Leyland bought out the traditional companies.,,
MG, Triumph, BSA, Norton, Austin , etc. Some how Land rover survived.
Why? Lord knows. ... Leyand robbed them of what little capital they
had, gave them nothing to work with, let alone compete, let their
facilities run down worse, right along with their tooling and
assembly techiniqes, and eventually tanked 'em all.

Did you here the one about the guy that bought a brand new Land Rover
and it didn't leak any oil so he kept complaining to the dealership
until they finally fixed the problem before the warrenty ran out????

wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:21:17 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:

The problem, at least here in CT, are the apprenticeship rules the
state adopted. We have a top flight state tech school system and the
kids who go through the programs are motivated. The problem with the
electrical/plumber programs comes after graduation. Each licensed
plumber or electrician can only have one apprentice. With dictated
pay scales and full benefits, plus mandated insurance costs, the
package costs the employer more than he can afford for each
apprentice. So for independant electricians/plumbers are in a losing
proposition even if they want to take on apprentices. Add in the time
required, even with school credits, to make Journeyman status and they
flat out can't afford it.


That is the "union problem".
They are like the medical establishment. They go out of their way to
limit the number of people in the business.


Ha! In the typical union model, the union runs the apprenticeship
programs for the three to five year course of study, depending upon the
trade, and once they complete the courses and training, they are
considered journeymen and are eligible to take the licensing
examinations. I'm not familiar with what Connecticut does, but the model
I cited is prevalent most other places. A decent number of young
apprentices enter the program after completing a 12-week Job Corps
program in which they learn basic "work" skills and a little bit about
the trades.