The demise of a great boat...
 

Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..

Most people don't realize that even in the best of times, commercial
construction workers have periods of unemployment because of the vagaries
of the market. That's one of the reasons why their hourly rate seems so
high. They usually don't get the 50 weeks of work that other working
Americans "enjoy."

Good point, and one I admit that I have not considered. However ....
don't union members get some sort of pay and benefits even when they are "in
between" jobs?

Eisboch




Not in the construction union field, generally speaking. If they have
worked enough quarters, their health insurance might last until they
start working again. Most unionized construction workers average about
1200 work hours a year in typical times, a little more when times are
good. Weather plays a significant role in hours worked, too, especially
in the colder climes.

Now, in Florida, the hourly rates are significantly lower than up north,
because the weather is not an impediment.

The demise of a great boat...
 

HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that the
Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both wage
and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of
the Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary
job skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on
time, sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job corps
provides pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste of the
sort of skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your knowledge
base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than
those basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know
nothing.

Harry,
Have you noticed that you are the only person in rec.boats who knows
what they are talking about. SWS,Eisboch and everyone else in here is
dumb as dirt and right wing idiots who ignore all science.



I doubt SWS, Eisboch, or you have ever had any significant direct
experience working with job corps instructors, programs, or students.
Three of my long-time union clients have been involved with various job
corps programs for decades, and I have been a frequent visitor to their
training schools, and have kept in touch over the years with a couple of
job corps grads who went on to complete a full union apprenticeship
program.

I've never referred to Eisboch or SWS as right-wing idiots or dumb as
dirt, nor have I entertained any thoughts at any time that they were.

Didn't you say that Eisboch and SWS refused to listen to science and
only the right wing seem to do that?

The demise of a great boat...
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
HK wrote:
BAR wrote:
HK wrote:
Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


I've been told by a number of electricians and plumbers that the
Union
training programs create false expectations in terms of both
wage and
real world conditions.

Employers, students, the labor dept, and hopefully the Unions
themselves have been very disappointed with the effectiveness of
the Job Corp to provide proper training or job placement for grads.


You really are an ignorant a**hole, Reggie. In the construction
trades, the purpose of the job corps is to provide unskilled,
undisciplined kids with a few decent life skills and preliminary
job skills so they know the importance of showing up for work on
time, sober, and with an attitude conducive to work. The job corps
provides pre-apprenticeship training, and a bit of a taste of the
sort of skills they'll be learning.

Do you actually know anything about anything, or is your knowledge
base built entirely upon what you google?

One summer working at McDonald's or Burger King will teach than
those basic job skills.


Is that how you got into the marines?

Obviously, the job corps is another subject about which you know
nothing.

Harry,
Have you noticed that you are the only person in rec.boats who knows
what they are talking about. SWS,Eisboch and everyone else in here
is dumb as dirt and right wing idiots who ignore all science.



I doubt SWS, Eisboch, or you have ever had any significant direct
experience working with job corps instructors, programs, or students.
Three of my long-time union clients have been involved with various
job corps programs for decades, and I have been a frequent visitor to
their training schools, and have kept in touch over the years with a
couple of job corps grads who went on to complete a full union
apprenticeship program.

I've never referred to Eisboch or SWS as right-wing idiots or dumb as
dirt, nor have I entertained any thoughts at any time that they were.

Didn't you say that Eisboch and SWS refused to listen to science and
only the right wing seem to do that?


No, Reggie, I never posted that. But I'm sure we all appreciate your
efforts at demonization, a**hole that you are.

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 07:54:50 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

On Nov 24, 5:04?am, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
That's the point - they don't pay competitive wages. Unnion wages are
always higher by a factor of 25/30% higher than a similar gualified
wage earner.

Take Painters for example. ?A Union painter base is $26 an hour to a
max of $30 here in CT. ?Work rules are restrictive in terms of hours,
breaks and travel. ?I can hire an equally qualified non-Union painter
for less than $15 who will do the job in less time and, in my
experience, better.


Pero usted debe decir el espa?ol para dirigirse una persona
complaciente a trabajar para quince d?lares por hora :-)

Creb hfgrq qror qrpve ry rfcn?by cnen qvevtvefr han crefban
pbzcynpvragr n genonwne cnen dhvapr q?ynerf cbe uben :-)

The demise of a great boat...
 

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Creb hfgrq qror qrpve ry rfcn?by cnen qvevtvefr han crefban
pbzcynpvragr n genonwne cnen dhvapr q?ynerf cbe uben :-)


"I shoulda bought a Yamaha..."

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 07:38:04 -0800 (PST), Chuck Gould
wrote:

One of them has a "sale pending", and the asking price was $169k.
Another is on the market for just under $160k, and the third is up in
BC- represented as "the finest example of a 36 Classic we have ever
listed" and they're asking $203k US.

Hey!! Trying to ruin a good thing for me?

I was waiting until Feburary and try to low ball Eisboch. :)

Ok, not really. Not my thing.

But from the ground - whoo hoo - that is one sweet boat.

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:05:51 -0500, "Eisboch"
wrote:

I worked in industry for many years. I've have the opportunity to work with
both union and non union electricians in very large companys and at Ma and
Pa shops. I could tell stories about some "Union" electricians ... the most
famous being the "qualified" electrician, me and the head of the Omega Laser
system at the University of Rochester, but but I won't.

Oh come on - I want to hear it.

I swap you my Union electrician story when we were building the new
shop for yours.

I'll bet it's just as funny. :)

The demise of a great boat...
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:24:29 -0500, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


Creb hfgrq qror qrpve ry rfcn?by cnen qvevtvefr han crefban
pbzcynpvragr n genonwne cnen dhvapr q?ynerf cbe uben :-)

"I shoulda bought a Yamaha..."

Wow - must have used a Union translator.

It said "Yamaha sucks, ETECs rule."

Freakin Union contractors. :)

The demise of a great boat...
 

HK wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:
On Nov 24, 3:49�am, HK wrote:
wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 00:21:17 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
wrote:
The problem, at least here in CT, are the apprenticeship rules the
state adopted. �We have a top flight state tech school system and the
kids who go through the programs are motivated. �The problem with the
electrical/plumber programs comes after graduation. �Each licensed
plumber or electrician can only have one apprentice. �With dictated
pay scales and full benefits, plus mandated insurance costs, the
package costs the employer more than he can afford for each
apprentice. �So for independant electricians/plumbers are in a losing
proposition even if they want to take on apprentices. �Add in the time
required, even with school credits, to make Journeyman status and they
flat out can't afford it.
That is the "union problem".
They are like the medical establishment. They go out of their way to
limit the number of people in the business.
Ha! In the typical union model, the union runs the apprenticeship
programs for the three to five year course of study, depending upon the
trade, and once they complete the courses and training, they are
considered journeymen and are eligible to take the licensing
examinations. I'm not familiar with what Connecticut does, but the model
I cited is prevalent most other places. A decent number of young
apprentices enter the program after completing a 12-week Job Corps
program in which they learn basic "work" skills and a little bit about
the trades.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

When the building boom was in full swing, maybe 12-18 months ago, the
carpenter's union was running advertisements trying to entice young
people to sign up for the apprenticeship program. They represented
that journeyman carpenters could earn a wage "consistent with most
college graduates", and regardless of the area of the country one
lives in and whatever the level of prevailing wages, that's probably
true. It should be. A guy who can frame a house has a lot more
economic value, IMO, than somebody who understands all the history and
nuances of 17th Century French oil painting. (I must be a barbarian.)


The carpenters' union is pretty progressive and aggressive, two
attributes I admire in trade unions. It also works hard to expand its
turf into areas that either haven't been organized, or are loosely
organized by other unions.

Why does a union have to do organizing? Shouldn't people be running to
the unions breaking down the doors to join?

Most people don't realize that even in the best of times, commercial
construction workers have periods of unemployment because of the
vagaries of the market. That's one of the reasons why their hourly rate
seems so high. They usually don't get the 50 weeks of work that other
working Americans "enjoy."

Really, they sound like contract workers in the high tech field. They
usually get paid more due to the fact that they can only count on
working 10 months a year and they have to pay for the full 15.5% of
SS/Medicare.

The demise of a great boat...
 

HK wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"HK" wrote in message
. ..

Most people don't realize that even in the best of times, commercial
construction workers have periods of unemployment because of the
vagaries of the market. That's one of the reasons why their hourly
rate seems so high. They usually don't get the 50 weeks of work that
other working Americans "enjoy."

Good point, and one I admit that I have not considered. However
.... don't union members get some sort of pay and benefits even when
they are "in between" jobs?

Eisboch



Not in the construction union field, generally speaking. If they have
worked enough quarters, their health insurance might last until they
start working again. Most unionized construction workers average about
1200 work hours a year in typical times, a little more when times are
good. Weather plays a significant role in hours worked, too, especially
in the colder climes.

Sounds like they need to get retail jobs for those rainy days.

Now, in Florida, the hourly rates are significantly lower than up north,
because the weather is not an impediment.

What about the cost of living? It is a hell of lot lower in Northern and
Mid Florida.