On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:08:44 -0500, HK wrote:

I doubt the diesels are going to burn half the fuel of the gas engines
at the same planing boat speeds. Also, around here there is almost no
difference in the cost of gasoline vs. diesel. There used to be, though.

Half as much, maybe less. Don't forget that the diesels have a lot
more low end torque and run at lower RPMs. The numbers that I quoted
are actuals from a guy who made the switch from gas to diesel on a
Bertram 33. He was getting more speed at half the fuel.

HK wrote:
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:23:55 -0800, Chuck Gould penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:


Why would every boat in succession always have to be narrower and with
a deeper V than previous models? Perhaps the new model is intended for
slightly different conditions. Is it possible that the same changes
that make the boat less "fishable" in your estimation might make it
better suited for cruising and exploring or some other purpose?

Unless Brunswick was lying through their teeth (which I find
imminently possible), their news releases at the time of purchase gave
the reason that they were targeting the sportfishing market.


Albemarle builds boats that range up to 40-soome feet in length, and
not all are intended exclusively for use by the weekend or retired
fisherman. It may be that in order to increase total overall appeal
and sales of the new model Albemarle decided to make it slightly less
specialized......don't know this for a fact, simply stating a
possibility.


Indeed, they have taken a local boat, built for local conditions, and
corporatized it to sell in a broader market.

To build a good case for a decline in quality I think it takes a lot
more than the appearance of a new hull design with different
characteristics.
Why not check out one of the new boats in person and see if fit,
finish,
hardware, workmanship aren't still up to traditional standards?

It was a boat designed for certain local conditions. It now,
regardless of fit and finish ranks little above the mongrel stage.

I'll
be getting underway on one of their new boats, just over 30-feet LOA,
in the next week or so.

Thus, it wouldn't be prudent to say anything disparaging about the
bread and butter, eh?

The brand doesn't have the long history in
this region that it enjoys back on the east coast,

The reason being, pre-Brunswick.... it wasn't designed for or marketed
to that region.

so I can't say that
I will be able to compare it knowledgeably with the pre-2005
produciton- but a pretty thorough at-the-dock examination of one of
the current boats a few months ago revealed no glaring defects or
cheap-cut aspects- I thought the boat was pretty impressive overall
and I am looking forward to the opportunity to learn even more about
it.

You might as well concede to Harry then, as you are making the
argument for him.

(The "Hatteras Collection" includes Hatteras, Cabo, and Albemarle. The
Harrell family sold to Brunswick in 2005).

Albemarle and Hatteras were originally designed as sport fishers for
the North Carolina coast. Hatteras hasn't been Hatteras since the High
Point, NC factory closed and the "Hatteras Collection" has "evolved"
to the point that it has as much in common with sportfishing as a
metrosexual does with a salt water tackle box.



What the hell would Chuck know about Atlantic Ocean sportfishing boats,
based upon an "at-the-dock" examination that "revealed no glaring
defects..." How would he know what a "glaring defect" on a sportfishing
boat might be?

Whenever a corporate conglomerate takes over a boat line, I'm reminded
of what happened to Harley-Davidson when it was taken over by AMF.


You are an arm chair know-it-all, why can't Chuck be one too?

"HK" wrote in message
news

I doubt the diesels are going to burn half the fuel of the gas engines at
the same planing boat speeds. Also, around here there is almost no
difference in the cost of gasoline vs. diesel. There used to be, though.

I don't know the actual burn rates, so this is purely anecdotal.

When I had the Egg Harbor with a pair of Cat 3126 diesels and 400 gallon
fuel tankage, my brother had my old 26' Phoenix with twin 350 Mercruisers,
recently rebuilt and 200 gallon fuel tankage.

Once in a while we would take both boats with fishing parties aboard on each
out to our secret cod fishing spot, 32 miles straight out from Scituate. We
would run together at about 28 kts. He didn't do it often because he burned
so much gas. The Egg, being bigger and much heavier burned far less fuel
and those Cats were not exactly fuel misers.

Eisboch

"Short Wave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Nov 2007 15:10:05 -0500, "Eisboch" wrote:

Back to Gradys. They are very popular up here in the northeast. I think
there are more of them around than any other manufacturer including Boston
Whaler. There's a large Grady dealer here in my hometown who stocks and
sells a lot of them.

I have never understood the attaction to Gradys. I think they are
ugly myself fully recognizing that beauty is in the eye of the
beholder.

Having said that, I also recognize that they are solid boats with a
great reputation (slightly overstated, but then what isn't?) and built
to last.

They are still ugly.

and overpriced.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}

My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.


Your problem is not the point. The point is, that with diesels, you
sometimes are facing repair bills that add up to more than the cost of a
new outboard of the same output.

HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}

My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.


Your problem is not the point. The point is, that with diesels, you
sometimes are facing repair bills that add up to more than the cost of a
new outboard of the same output.

Harry,
Diesels definitely make financial sense is if you are putting lots of
hours on the engines and plan on keeping the boat/car/truck for a long
time. They cost less in fuel and cost substantially less in maintenance
$/hrs of use, but you need the high usage to offset the initial cost.
The same would apply to a major rebuild.

There are very few recreational boaters who can justify diesels engines
financially, but Wayne is definitely one of them.

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
news
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}

My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.


Your problem is not the point. The point is, that with diesels, you
sometimes are facing repair bills that add up to more than the cost of a
new outboard of the same output.

Harry,
Diesels definitely make financial sense is if you are putting lots of
hours on the engines and plan on keeping the boat/car/truck for a long
time. They cost less in fuel and cost substantially less in maintenance
$/hrs of use, but you need the high usage to offset the initial cost. The
same would apply to a major rebuild.

There are very few recreational boaters who can justify diesels engines
financially, but Wayne is definitely one of them.

Besides, Grand Banks don't come with gas engines. I wonder why.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
news
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}
My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.

Your problem is not the point. The point is, that with diesels, you
sometimes are facing repair bills that add up to more than the cost of a
new outboard of the same output.
Harry,
Diesels definitely make financial sense is if you are putting lots of
hours on the engines and plan on keeping the boat/car/truck for a long
time. They cost less in fuel and cost substantially less in maintenance
$/hrs of use, but you need the high usage to offset the initial cost. The
same would apply to a major rebuild.

There are very few recreational boaters who can justify diesels engines
financially, but Wayne is definitely one of them.

Besides, Grand Banks don't come with gas engines. I wonder why.

Eisboch



I wonder if you could pull those diesel engines out of the engine room
and strap some Etecs onto the transom. You would then triple the amount
of storage space you have on the GB.

People were surprised the we had GW's on Lake Lanier, I have seen 4 or 5
GB's on the lake, my guess is there are more.

Oh we also have a retired working Tug Boat on the lake, that I think was
hauled in from the west coast.

For a relatively small lake, (getting smaller all the time), you will
see a large assortment of ocean going boats.

"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in message
news
Diesels definitely make financial sense is if you are putting lots of
hours on the engines and plan on keeping the boat/car/truck for a long
time. They cost less in fuel and cost substantially less in maintenance
$/hrs of use, but you need the high usage to offset the initial cost.



Last May I decided I didn't need a big pickup truck anymore so I traded in a
'05 Ford 4x4 Superduty diesel F-350 crew cab for a '07 Ford Ranger 4x4
extended cab with a 4.0L gas engine.

The 325 hp diesel truck weighed over 7,000 lbs and got 17 mpg around town
and 19-20 mpg on the highway.

The Ranger, at about half the weight and with just over 200 hp gets poorer
mileage, in both around town and highway driving.

Eisboch

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
Eisboch wrote:
"Reginald P. Smithers III" wrote in
message news
HK wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 22:16:20 -0500, HK wrote:

I tend to agree regarding the inboards, but...what if one of those
diesels blows a tranny? :}
My starboard tranny had 26 years and maybe 10,000 hours on it before
it started to act up. It was actually still functional but showing
some signs that it needed work. We should only hope that everything
else lasted that long without maintenance.

Your problem is not the point. The point is, that with diesels, you
sometimes are facing repair bills that add up to more than the cost
of a new outboard of the same output.
Harry,
Diesels definitely make financial sense is if you are putting lots of
hours on the engines and plan on keeping the boat/car/truck for a
long time. They cost less in fuel and cost substantially less in
maintenance $/hrs of use, but you need the high usage to offset the
initial cost. The same would apply to a major rebuild.

There are very few recreational boaters who can justify diesels
engines financially, but Wayne is definitely one of them.

Besides, Grand Banks don't come with gas engines. I wonder why.

Eisboch


I wonder if you could pull those diesel engines out of the engine room
and strap some Etecs onto the transom. You would then triple the amount
of storage space you have on the GB.

People were surprised the we had GW's on Lake Lanier, I have seen 4 or 5
GB's on the lake, my guess is there are more.

Oh we also have a retired working Tug Boat on the lake, that I think was
hauled in from the west coast.

For a relatively small lake, (getting smaller all the time), you will
see a large assortment of ocean going boats.


They're waiting for the return of the Great Flood. Same as buying future
oceanfront property in Arizona.