On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin


Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast. The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs
ago). I did an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a
complete detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the
complete Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino
Bros. 3 step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as
glass. While the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was
really interested is how well it would last after 6 months, since I
would always wax my car in the spring and fall. In the fall, the
Zaino still had large beads of water on the car, and when I clayed
the car, their was no pollution residual common off on the clay. The
Mequiars car was still water beading, but the beads were smaller, and
it the finish definitely had rough feel. When I clayed the car, I
could see where the air pollution had pitted the finish, and I was
getting the pollution residual on the clay. I also noticed that the
Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor
and in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other
people will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing
is the owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call
up with a question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think
he is semi retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have
technical questions about the product. It really does apply
differently than most waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax
obviously isn't working on your water line gunk, why don't you try it
after you clean off it with "Off and On"? If you do, you will need
to let us know next fall if it did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.


I wonder if JimH is going to say Bull**** about me giving away the
Mequiars?

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also.

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?

Because it was still dark outside?
Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:35:56 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?

Because it was still dark outside?
Nah, it is because it sounded just like their spiel. The only other
product I have tried that exceeded my expecations as well as Zaino is
OxyClean. When that was new, I told everyone how great it was to get
rid of mildew on the boat, to clean the carpet and used at home in the
laundry. I wanted to make sure it stayed on the market.

It works well on dog poop stains on the carpet also



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.


Dog poop beads...??

"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:


sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.



"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"John H." wrote in message
...

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:31:17 -0400, HK wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole
season.

Sherwin

Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended
it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered
the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto
enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass.
While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested
is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my
car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads
of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air
pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on
the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the
2nd
time i applied the finish.


"The beads were smaller..."


There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

Eisboch



Eisbock,

I had heard that also, but considering all (or at least all of the major
mfg'ers that I know of) waxes and polishes result in water beading, and
the car stops beading when the sacrificial wax is pitted, how does one
protect their car's finish without getting water beading?

The water beading question reminds me of the physic problem concerning
do you get wetter running in the rain or walking in the rain.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:41:03 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

There is a school of thought that suggests that "beading" of water on a
painted surface will cause paint damage unless you wash and wax very
regularly. The beads of water act like miniature magnifying glasses,
focusing and intensifying the sun's energy, burning through the wax and
paint and permanently burning any dust or dirt into the surface. The wax is
sacrificial and does not last very long.

File this under learn something new everyday.

I just read Wayne's post about sheeting water on his racer and your
post on optics.

Here's my question - what makes the water bead? Is it that it clings
to the surface, or because it can't cling to the surface?

I would assume that the sheeting action is related to the fact that
there isn't anything for the water to cling to.

HK wrote:



"The beads were smaller..."

Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.



Harry,
I am don't know the actual physics behind the process of water beading,
it has some thing to do with surface tension of the water, and how the
car finish holds onto the water molecules determining the size of the
water droplets. The less surface tension on the car finish, the less it
will holds onto the water molecules and thus, the larger the water
droplets will be before their molecules pull apart. If the car finish
is pitted the surface tension of the car finish will be so strong it
will not allow the water to bead at all or the beads will be smaller.

Now I am going to ask you to either contribute to the discussion or butt
out of the discussion. It makes you look silly to comment on subjects
that are not familiar with. I don't want to have to ask you again.