On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 07:17:12 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Sherwin


Sherwin,
That was my opinion for 25 years, and is the reason I always used
Carnauba Wax also and didn't even bother to try the new finishes
available at the auto store. I tried Zaino after someone recommended it
in rec.boats and I did a Google Search and found it was considered the
best finish and protectant by all of the car clubs and auto enthusiast.
The first year I tried Zaino Bros, (I think it was 4 yrs ago). I did
an A/B experiment with my wife's car and my car. I did a complete
detail on both cars, including using detail clay and the complete
Meguiar's Car Care 3 step Carnauba Wax Program and the Zaino Bros. 3
step Polish. After I finished both cars were as slick as glass. While
the Zaino Bros looked better initially, what I was really interested is
how well it would last after 6 months, since I would always wax my car
in the spring and fall. In the fall, the Zaino still had large beads of
water on the car, and when I clayed the car, their was no pollution
residual common off on the clay. The Mequiars car was still water
beading, but the beads were smaller, and it the finish definitely had
rough feel. When I clayed the car, I could see where the air pollution
had pitted the finish, and I was getting the pollution residual on the
clay. I also noticed that the Zaino car actually looked better the 2nd
time i applied the finish.

At this point, I gave alway the rest of the Meguiars to a neighbor and
in the Spring time used Zaino on my boat and cars.

I doubt you will try the Zaino, but I went through this explanation
because I really believe in the product and hope that some other people
will try it. It is truly amazing. What I thought was amusing is the
owner Sal Zaino is the guy who answers the phone when you call up with a
question. He has that gruff New York City voice. I think he is semi
retired, but is the "answer line" for people who have technical
questions about the product. It really does apply differently than most
waxes and polishes. Since the Caranuba wax obviously isn't working on
your water line gunk, why don't you try it after you clean off it with
"Off and On"? If you do, you will need to let us know next fall if it
did any good.

Why do I feel like I am doing a late night infomercial?


Because it was still dark outside?

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates too.

BAR wrote:
sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less
protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates too.

Does it also protect your digestive tract?

Do you remember that long thread we had a number of years ago, about
what was the best wax for your car. As with so many NG threads it went
on for months. I wish I could remember who made the post about Zaino
and "sold" me on trying it. I owe them a beer and dinner.

Yep, I should have said Carnuba, but I think the idea got across.

All this talk about Zaino makes me wonder about how a polish can protect
paint or fiberglass. Seems like you need a coating of some sort to do that job,
and as far as I know, Carnuba was is one of the toughest of those types.

My experience has been with Simoniz wax with Carnuba was and it protected
my 1990 van's paint for 11 years with a once a year application. When I sold
it, the paint still looked great.

I bought the "On and Off" new gel formulation at West Marine today. The latest
issue of Practical Boater rated it highly along with another brand which West didn't
carry. Practical Boater gave the other brand a higher rating because it was half the
price of "On and Off". The West salesman recognized this and matched the price
to the other stuff. I think Boater's World carried the other brand. These are all
mixtures of various acids, so they probably are equally effective.

Sherwin

BAR wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
My experience with waxes are the easier they apply, the less protection. I only use
waxes with Carbona. It isn't easy to apply, but it lasts a whole season.

Is that Carnuba? If it is then that put that in some cheap chocolates too.

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:37:05 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

As far as wax, I give the hull a good coating of high quality boat wax before the
spring launch, and it doesn't seem to help protect the boat. This fresh water river

must have some nasty chemicals in it. I certainly wouldn't go in this water to try
and
clean the boat during the season. I have tried various products containing bleach,
oxalic acid, etc. and haven't found an effective cleaner yet. I am still wondering
if
using these acid products full strength might do damage to the fiberglass, so maybe
they should be diluted (how much?). If they use muriatic acid to etch concrete,
that
sounds scary. I will check out the 'on and off' product. I eventually got most of
the
stain off using a heavy duty liquid cleaner, but it took a lot of rubbing. I have
used
most of the commercial products mentioned in this thread, with not much luck.

Sherwin

I use an acid based cleaner from WalMart called, surprisingly enough,
Hull Cleaner that they sell in the boating/fishing section. I am sure
that it is just some basic acid that you can get cheaper in some other
form, but a quart container lasts me through at least 10 cleanings. I
boat in the Ohio River and if left in even over night there is a brown
to black stain that will not come off with any soap I have tried. With
this stuff I first wash with soap, then just sponge this stuff on
sparingly with a long handled cleaner with a cloth head. I spray some
around the outdrive and other hard to get too areas. Wait 10 seconds
or so and spray it off and the boat is white again. It doesn't matter
whether the boat was left in overnight or for 3 weeks, the stain comes
off just as quickly. I would bet that this stuff eats off the wax the
first time I use it and I only wax once a season. I have used it for
several years and see absolutely no impact on the fiberglass. I do NOT
have bottom paint on the boat, though.

Dave Hall

Dave Hall wrote:
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:37:05 -0600, sherwindu
wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.

As far as wax, I give the hull a good coating of high quality boat wax before the
spring launch, and it doesn't seem to help protect the boat. This fresh water river

must have some nasty chemicals in it. I certainly wouldn't go in this water to try
and
clean the boat during the season. I have tried various products containing bleach,
oxalic acid, etc. and haven't found an effective cleaner yet. I am still wondering
if
using these acid products full strength might do damage to the fiberglass, so maybe
they should be diluted (how much?). If they use muriatic acid to etch concrete,
that
sounds scary. I will check out the 'on and off' product. I eventually got most of
the
stain off using a heavy duty liquid cleaner, but it took a lot of rubbing. I have
used
most of the commercial products mentioned in this thread, with not much luck.

Sherwin

I use an acid based cleaner from WalMart called, surprisingly enough,
Hull Cleaner that they sell in the boating/fishing section. I am sure
that it is just some basic acid that you can get cheaper in some other
form, but a quart container lasts me through at least 10 cleanings. I
boat in the Ohio River and if left in even over night there is a brown
to black stain that will not come off with any soap I have tried. With
this stuff I first wash with soap, then just sponge this stuff on
sparingly with a long handled cleaner with a cloth head. I spray some
around the outdrive and other hard to get too areas. Wait 10 seconds
or so and spray it off and the boat is white again. It doesn't matter
whether the boat was left in overnight or for 3 weeks, the stain comes
off just as quickly. I would bet that this stuff eats off the wax the
first time I use it and I only wax once a season. I have used it for
several years and see absolutely no impact on the fiberglass. I do NOT
have bottom paint on the boat, though.

Dave Hall

That is exactly how Off and On works. Off and On sells for about
$15/quart.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

Wayne,

That is what I like about rec.boats, unlike some in here, I don't know
it all, and am always learning something. Thanks.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:21:59 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:31:02 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

That is exactly how Off and On works.

Acid is acid.

Sno Bowl is the same stuff only cheaper.

I'm going to try that stuff on that Chris Craft hull I have that is
stained.

Cheap enough to experiment with.

Was out at the boat to put on the cover and button things up. I tried some of the
On and Off on some residual places the other cleaners could not clean. It really
works. Next season should be a lot easier.

By the way, I spent some time draining my fuel lines to the outboard and inline
filter of residual gasoline. I think that is one place where gas can go bad over
the
winter and screw things up the next season.

Sherwin

sherwindu wrote:

After pulling my boat from the Root River in Racine Wisconsin, I noticed that
there
was an ugly band of black gunk at the waterline, especially at the upstream side
of
the boat when it was in the slip. A power wash got the mud off, but this band
of
gunk stayed on. I had the same problem last year, and had to rub like hell with

all kinds of cleaners to get it off. Someone recommended using Tidy Bowl as a
cleaner, possibly because it contains Muratic Acid. I know that Muratic Acid is

used to clean and etch concrete, so I was wary to use it on my fiberglass hull.
Was I correct about this? Is there a better way to clean off this river junk?
I
have used Zud and other similar products, but they don't get everything off and
require a lot of elbow grease. Some of this gunk is on the bottom paint, as
well,
so I have to be careful not to dissolve that.

Sherwin