I'm in the market for a new paddling top for use with Farmer John.
Drytop not needed because I have drysuit.

Campmor sells the Kokatat Super Breeze made of Tropos fabric for $85.
Several websites say Tropos is nylon with "custom" urethane coating
inside and DWR spray outside.

NRS sells the Endurance jacket made of Wavetex for $70, described here
as nylon coated with breathable urethane inside and DWR spray outside.
http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/material.asp

In general, ya think these fabrics have approximately equal lifespan?
Perhaps they are even the same fabric.

My Patagonia paddling top had a white hypalon-like coating inside
that didn't last very long; quite a disappointment. I think my old
cheapo Kokatat with urethane coating lasted longer.

The NRS jacket has a weird upper-arm pocket, whereas the Kokatat has
a traditional mesh pocket on the chest. Guess I prefer the Kokatat.
Other jacket ideas welcome.

Forgot to mention Triton and Goretex.

Triton is an NRS 3-layer fabric that looks similar to Goretex.

I have been impressed by the durability of Goretex,
leading to the question, why is Teflon so durable in a garment,
but so non-durable in a frying pan?

\
I have been impressed by the durability of Goretex,
leading to the question, why is Teflon so durable in a garment,
but so non-durable in a frying pan?


I think that has to do with the fact of the heat of the stove and the people
who use metal spatulas.

I am certain if you put that teflon in the dryer then scraped it along some
metal, it would break down too.

Micheal

Micheal Artindale wrote:

I have been impressed by the durability of Goretex,
leading to the question, why is Teflon so durable in a garment,
but so non-durable in a frying pan?

I think that has to do with the fact of the heat of the stove and the people
who use metal spatulas.

Perhaps you are right about heat, but I never use metal utensils
in my Teflon frying pans, yet the coating breaks down after several years.

I am certain if you put that teflon in the dryer then scraped it along some
metal, it would break down too.

I have worn out three paddling jackets in the time it took to wear out
one Goretex drysuit. Some of this is due to Kokatat customer service,
for sure, but urethane tends to peel off nylon in damp conditions,
or something.

On Oct 17, 2:31 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
I have been impressed by the durability of Goretex,
leading to the question, why is Teflon so durable in a garment,
but so non-durable in a frying pan?

What *I* want to know is:

OK, if Teflon plastic, AKA polytetrafluoroethylene, is a "...is a
white solid at room temperature..." (much like many other polmerized
ethylenes!) as is said he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

then what's that dark brownish coating on cookware made of? Not JUST
Teflon, I'm sure!! The above page says nothing about cookware coating,
or how they take a white plastic and make it into that brownish
coating. I'm curious!

I can totally understand Teflon's low low frictional coefficient, what
with only fluorine atoms on it's molecular outside. Fluorine is THE
most electronegative atom, I believe, resulting in extremely low Van
Der Waal forces which cause friction. So low in fact that Teflon is
the only substance a gecko lizard can't stick to! Someone tell Geico
insurance, quick! ;-)

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe wrote:

What *I* want to know is:
OK, if Teflon plastic, AKA polytetrafluoroethylene, is a "...is a
white solid at room temperature..." (much like many other polmerized
ethylenes!) as is said he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene

then what's that dark brownish coating on cookware made of? Not JUST
Teflon, I'm sure!! The above page says nothing about cookware coating,
or how they take a white plastic and make it into that brownish
coating. I'm curious!

I can totally understand Teflon's low low frictional coefficient, what
with only fluorine atoms on it's molecular outside. Fluorine is THE
most electronegative atom, I believe, resulting in extremely low Van
Der Waal forces which cause friction. So low in fact that Teflon is
the only substance a gecko lizard can't stick to! Someone tell Geico
insurance, quick! ;-)

LOL, great post. "degrades above 260°C (500°F)," hmmm.

Teflon frying pans must have some coloring agent because a white surface
would get dirty quickly. I have a Creuset pot (enamel inside & out)
with blue exterior and off-white interior, now stained halfway up
from cooking black beans.

While we're on frying pans -- I bought a new one at REI this year,
recommended by Backpacker magazine editors. Don't know if the coating
will last any longer than before, but it's a nice utensil. Mainly,
the folding handle shouldn't collapse when you've just got the chicken
cooked and onto the plate -- oops, into the sand.

On Oct 18, 7:39 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:
John Kuthe wrote:
What *I* want to know is:
OK, if Teflon plastic, AKA polytetrafluoroethylene, is a "...is a
white solid at room temperature..." (much like many other polmerized
ethylenes!) as is said he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
then what's that dark brownish coating on cookware made of? Not JUST
Teflon, I'm sure!! The above page says nothing about cookware coating,
or how they take a white plastic and make it into that brownish
coating. I'm curious!
I can totally understand Teflon's low low frictional coefficient, what
with only fluorine atoms on it's molecular outside. Fluorine is THE
most electronegative atom, I believe, resulting in extremely low Van
Der Waal forces which cause friction. So low in fact that Teflon is
the only substance a gecko lizard can't stick to! Someone tell Geico
insurance, quick! ;-)

LOL, great post. "degrades above 260°C (500°F)," hmmm.

Teflon frying pans must have some coloring agent because a white surface
would get dirty quickly. I have a Creuset pot (enamel inside & out)
with blue exterior and off-white interior, now stained halfway up
from cooking black beans.

Teflon coating on cookware is probably colored due to the stuff they
have to use to get Teflon to stick to the metal of the pan! I doubt
it's for cosmetic reasons. Think about it: Teflon plastic, AKA
polytetrafluoroethylene, is a white plastic, I'd imagine very close in
appeaance and feel to Nylon or polyethylene. You know, white kinda
soft plastic.

So how do they get this super-low coefficient of drag plastic to be
this thin brownish coating that sticks to cookware but little else
once it's on the cookware? I wanna know!

John Kuthe...

John Kuthe wrote:

Teflon coating on cookware is probably colored due to the stuff they
have to use to get Teflon to stick to the metal of the pan! I doubt
it's for cosmetic reasons. Think about it: Teflon plastic, AKA
polytetrafluoroethylene, is a white plastic, I'd imagine very close in
appeaance and feel to Nylon or polyethylene. You know, white kinda
soft plastic.

So how do they get this super-low coefficient of drag plastic to be
this thin brownish coating that sticks to cookware but little else
once it's on the cookware? I wanna know!

The Wikipedia article on Polytetrafluoroethylene says:
"In 1954, Kansas City buisnessman [sic] Marion A. Trozzolo
created the first pan coated with Teflon non-stick resin."
Linking to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marion_A._Trozzolo

Supposedly eVENT is more breathable than Goretex, but like Goretex,
eVENT is a PTFE based fabric. Sorry for the old 2001 link:
http://verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

John Kuthe wrote:
On Oct 18, 7:39 pm, Bill Tuthill wrote:

John Kuthe wrote:

What *I* want to know is:
OK, if Teflon plastic, AKA polytetrafluoroethylene, is a "...is a
white solid at room temperature..." (much like many other polmerized
ethylenes!) as is said he
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
then what's that dark brownish coating on cookware made of? Not JUST
Teflon, I'm sure!! The above page says nothing about cookware coating,
or how they take a white plastic and make it into that brownish
coating. I'm curious!
I can totally understand Teflon's low low frictional coefficient, what
with only fluorine atoms on it's molecular outside. Fluorine is THE
most electronegative atom, I believe, resulting in extremely low Van
Der Waal forces which cause friction. So low in fact that Teflon is
the only substance a gecko lizard can't stick to! Someone tell Geico
insurance, quick! ;-)

LOL, great post. "degrades above 260°C (500°F)," hmmm.

Teflon frying pans must have some coloring agent because a white surface
would get dirty quickly. I have a Creuset pot (enamel inside & out)
with blue exterior and off-white interior, now stained halfway up
from cooking black beans.


Teflon coating on cookware is probably colored due to the stuff they
have to use to get Teflon to stick to the metal of the pan! I doubt
it's for cosmetic reasons. Think about it: Teflon plastic, AKA
polytetrafluoroethylene, is a white plastic, I'd imagine very close in
appeaance and feel to Nylon or polyethylene. You know, white kinda
soft plastic.

So how do they get this super-low coefficient of drag plastic to be
this thin brownish coating that sticks to cookware but little else
once it's on the cookware? I wanna know!

John Kuthe...

I couldn't help responding to this post.
I lurk in this news group on occasion because it's full of good advice
and I like to canoe.
I use to work with manufacturers of Teflon coated pans ( a while ago -
so the information provided is dated, abridged and subject to the
accuracy of my recollections) - At the time I was involved, Teflon was a
3 coat system.
A base coat which was a polymer mix to adhere to the sand blasted and
etched pan surface, a second coat of PTFE with decorative speckles
(and/or pigments) and a clear over coat of translucent PTFE
The durability of the coating is more a function of the cook ware
manufacturing process than the resin composition.
DuPont got burned on their original Teflon coating by selling the resin
(emulsion) to anybody and allowing them to use the Teflon brand name.
Later coatings like the SilverStone required process approval and
auditing by DuPont in order to use the SilverStone name.
Other companies may use the same coating, but if their process is not up
to par, they can not use the SilverStone trade name.
The white "Teflon" components for lab ware etc. are typically ETFE which
is a thermoplastic as opposed to a thermo set resin (emulsion) system
like PTFE Teflon coatings.

The coating adhesion is mainly mechanical in nature and substrate
preparation is extremely important.
The Teflon has a very low surface tension which prevents it from being
wetted in solid form - However, when melted, it is a low surface tension
liquid and it will wet a substrate very efficiently and creep into every
nook and cranny on the surface.

I hope this information helps to satisfy your curiosity ;-)

Gregg

Bill Tuthill wrote:
Farmer John.

I'm not a native English speaker.

Is this the same as a long John? If not what is it?

bjorri.