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#1
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Seems like many people are interested in drysuits this month.
Hopefully I can troll for discussion about breathable fabrics. Kokatat still uses Goretex in most of their drysuits, except a semi-drysuit with Tropos. I don't know if they have switched their high-end drysuits to Goretex XCR yet. OS Systems uses Sympatex, a German 3-layer fabric with a layer of hydrophilic copolyetherester. Palm/MTI uses XP100, XP150, and XP200 depending on garment. All are layered with hydrophilic polyurethane. The '06 NRS Extreme drysuit uses TriTon fabric, whatever that is. Here is an interesting summary of US Army research on various waterproof/breathable fabrics: http://verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf I want a drysuit made of eVENT! |
#2
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
There are two problems with that test:
1- It doesn't include data on waterproofness, which is critical for paddlers. 2- It was done six years ago, before many of the current fabrics were on the market. It would be nice to see an updated test that addressed both of these issues. |
#3
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Per Bill Tuthill:
Hopefully I can troll for discussion about breathable fabrics. Kokatat still uses Goretex in most of their drysuits, except a semi-drysuit with Tropos. I don't know if they have switched their high-end drysuits to Goretex XCR yet. Here's an anecdotal/single-data point observation: Today I did about 45 minutes pretty hard wearing my old Bare Polar (neo john bonded to coated nylon bag top). I usually do 1.5-2 hours, but today I didn't put the right mitts on soon enough and my hands got cold. Having ripped the neck seal on my "good" suit (a Kokatat Goretex w/the sock option), I wasn't particularly looking forward to going out today. Surprise. I think upper-body mobility in the Bare was significantly better than in the Kokatat full-bag. Don't ask me why....but that's how it seemed to me - who was expecting the worst. OTOH, my car definitely runs better after it's been washed.... -) The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down. As far as being wet goes, I don't think my shirt was any wetter inside the coated nylon that it gets inside the GoreTex. I suspect that the main diff is that, as somebody else observed, if I stop working long enough I'll dry out in the GoreTex. Given the amount of sweat that I accumulate in, say, 90 minutes of hard paddling (about half a kilo as measured by weighing my shirt before/after) I don't hold out much hope for any vapor-transmitting system tb a significant improvement over GoreTex. I'm still looking forward to repairing the Kokatat because of the ease of entry/egress (you gotta stop to pee in the Bare and, believe me, you've got a problem. Not an insurmountable one, but it's gonna be 10-15 minute stop. Also, the GoreTex bag is more tunable. 5mm of neoprene doesn't leave much latitude for adjustment except in the thickness of the top undergarment. Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers. -- PeteCresswell |
#4
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Per (PeteCresswell):
Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers. To that, I'd also add http://www.oceanrodeo.com/pro.php They seem to be touting a "Suspension" system that I hope would keep the crotch up where it belongs. On my Kokatat, the drawstring system is pretty much hopeless and the crotch can sag down 3-4" which can hamstring you if you get dumped in the water and the legs cling. -- PeteCresswell |
#5
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers. Yup, medium tall (for me). Also, OSsystems is quite good, perhaps as good as Kokatat, at servicing their drysuits long-term. From the OSsystems website, I can't really tell the difference between the Spirit and the Splash-B-SRB-EC. They are both about the same price. The latter seems to be a Splash-B-SRO-B without the convenience zipper (relief zipper as us Yanks call it). I've said this before, and will say it again: the relief zipper just adds cost, weight, and one more possible source for leaks. No reason Kokatat can't build drysuits with a main zipper that serves double duty. |
#6
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Bill Tuthill wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote: Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers. Yup, medium tall (for me). Also, OSsystems is quite good, perhaps as good as Kokatat, at servicing their drysuits long-term. From the OSsystems website, I can't really tell the difference between the Spirit and the Splash-B-SRB-EC. They are both about the same price. The latter seems to be a Splash-B-SRO-B without the convenience zipper (relief zipper as us Yanks call it). I've said this before, and will say it again: the relief zipper just adds cost, weight, and one more possible source for leaks. No reason Kokatat can't build drysuits with a main zipper that serves double duty. Perhaps so, but most dry suit manufacturers don't do that, possibly due to size restrictions on waterproof zippers. I won't buy a dry suit that doesn't have a relief zipper of some sort. |
#7
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Per Brian Nystrom:
Perhaps so, but most dry suit manufacturers don't do that, possibly due to size restrictions on waterproof zippers. I won't buy a dry suit that doesn't have a relief zipper of some sort. I ordered my Kokatat with a relief zipper because everybody else was so enthusiastic about the feature. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't order one. Reasons: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) I can't see using it unless I'm standing on dry land. Given that, by the time I need to use it, I'm so soaked with sweat that it's another kind of relief to peel off the arms and torso anyhow. 2) When windsurfing, sometimes it gets in the way of the harness line when I'm trying to re-hook. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- OTOH, if I were doing it again, I think I'd order the OS Systems product instead because it looks like a off-the-shelf suit would fit me instead of having to pay more for a semi-custom. -- PeteCresswell |
#8
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
1) I can't see using it unless I'm standing on dry land. Given that, by the time I need to use it, I'm so soaked with sweat that it's another kind of relief to peel off the arms and torso anyhow. By the time I need to use it, I need to use it because I'll **** my shorts before I can get the #@*&^&$ drysuit off. YMMV. Mike |
#9
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
Per (PeteCresswell):
The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down. Here's another little minus for bag suits (at least the way most people use them); That nice, fluffy PolarTech or whatever that people wear under the suit for insulation gets seriously compressed when you flop into the water and the vacuum-pack effect sets in on the legs and lower torso. The result is the opposite of what most would want: the suit is considerably warmer when out of the water and *less* warm when immersed. Still, I own one too - and I'm looking forward to getting back into it as soon as a new neck seal arrives... But my old Bare Polar 5mm that I'm using for backup is looking pretty to me right now... -- PeteCresswell |
#10
posted to rec.boats.paddle
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Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per (PeteCresswell): The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down. Here's another little minus for bag suits (at least the way most people use them); That nice, fluffy PolarTech or whatever that people wear under the suit for insulation gets seriously compressed when you flop into the water and the vacuum-pack effect sets in on the legs and lower torso. The result is the opposite of what most would want: the suit is considerably warmer when out of the water and *less* warm when immersed. That can easily be minimized by floating horizontal at the surface. There's little need to stay vertical, anyway. |
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