Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Seems like many people are interested in drysuits this month.
Hopefully I can troll for discussion about breathable fabrics.

Kokatat still uses Goretex in most of their drysuits, except
a semi-drysuit with Tropos. I don't know if they have switched
their high-end drysuits to Goretex XCR yet.

OS Systems uses Sympatex, a German 3-layer fabric with a layer
of hydrophilic copolyetherester.

Palm/MTI uses XP100, XP150, and XP200 depending on garment.
All are layered with hydrophilic polyurethane.

The '06 NRS Extreme drysuit uses TriTon fabric, whatever that is.

Here is an interesting summary of US Army research on various
waterproof/breathable fabrics:
http://verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/breathability.pdf

I want a drysuit made of eVENT!

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

There are two problems with that test:

1- It doesn't include data on waterproofness, which is critical for
paddlers.

2- It was done six years ago, before many of the current fabrics were on
the market.

It would be nice to see an updated test that addressed both of these issues.

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Per Bill Tuthill:
Hopefully I can troll for discussion about breathable fabrics.

Kokatat still uses Goretex in most of their drysuits, except
a semi-drysuit with Tropos. I don't know if they have switched
their high-end drysuits to Goretex XCR yet.

Here's an anecdotal/single-data point observation:

Today I did about 45 minutes pretty hard wearing my old Bare Polar (neo john
bonded to coated nylon bag top). I usually do 1.5-2 hours, but today I didn't
put the right mitts on soon enough and my hands got cold.

Having ripped the neck seal on my "good" suit (a Kokatat Goretex w/the sock
option), I wasn't particularly looking forward to going out today.

Surprise. I think upper-body mobility in the Bare was significantly better
than in the Kokatat full-bag. Don't ask me why....but that's how it seemed to
me - who was expecting the worst. OTOH, my car definitely runs better after
it's been washed.... -)

The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down.

As far as being wet goes, I don't think my shirt was any wetter inside the
coated nylon that it gets inside the GoreTex. I suspect that the main diff is
that, as somebody else observed, if I stop working long enough I'll dry out in
the GoreTex.

Given the amount of sweat that I accumulate in, say, 90 minutes of hard paddling
(about half a kilo as measured by weighing my shirt before/after) I don't hold
out much hope for any vapor-transmitting system tb a significant improvement
over GoreTex.

I'm still looking forward to repairing the Kokatat because of the ease of
entry/egress (you gotta stop to pee in the Bare and, believe me, you've got a
problem. Not an insurmountable one, but it's gonna be 10-15 minute stop.

Also, the GoreTex bag is more tunable. 5mm of neoprene doesn't leave much
latitude for adjustment except in the thickness of the top undergarment.

Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is
calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com -
particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a
convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing
system for us statistical outliers.
--
PeteCresswell

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Per (PeteCresswell):
Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that if Kokatat is
calling out to them, they also need to check out www.ossystems.com -
particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to eliminate the need for a
convenience zipper and it looks to me like they've got a friendlier sizing
system for us statistical outliers.

To that, I'd also add http://www.oceanrodeo.com/pro.php

They seem to be touting a "Suspension" system that I hope would keep the crotch
up where it belongs.

On my Kokatat, the drawstring system is pretty much hopeless and the crotch can
sag down 3-4" which can hamstring you if you get dumped in the water and the
legs cling.
--
PeteCresswell

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that
if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out
www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to
eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like
they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers.

Yup, medium tall (for me). Also, OSsystems is quite good, perhaps as good
as Kokatat, at servicing their drysuits long-term.

From the OSsystems website, I can't really tell the difference between
the Spirit and the Splash-B-SRB-EC. They are both about the same price.
The latter seems to be a Splash-B-SRO-B without the convenience zipper
(relief zipper as us Yanks call it).

I've said this before, and will say it again: the relief zipper just adds
cost, weight, and one more possible source for leaks. No reason Kokatat
can't build drysuits with a main zipper that serves double duty.

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Bill Tuthill wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
Finally, if somebody's trolling for dry suit info, I'd opine that
if Kokatat is calling out to them, they also need to check out
www.ossystems.com - particularly the "Spirit". The long zipper seems to
eliminate the need for a convenience zipper and it looks to me like
they've got a friendlier sizing system for us statistical outliers.

Yup, medium tall (for me). Also, OSsystems is quite good, perhaps as good
as Kokatat, at servicing their drysuits long-term.

From the OSsystems website, I can't really tell the difference between
the Spirit and the Splash-B-SRB-EC. They are both about the same price.
The latter seems to be a Splash-B-SRO-B without the convenience zipper
(relief zipper as us Yanks call it).

I've said this before, and will say it again: the relief zipper just adds
cost, weight, and one more possible source for leaks. No reason Kokatat
can't build drysuits with a main zipper that serves double duty.

Perhaps so, but most dry suit manufacturers don't do that, possibly due
to size restrictions on waterproof zippers. I won't buy a dry suit that
doesn't have a relief zipper of some sort.

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Per Brian Nystrom:
Perhaps so, but most dry suit manufacturers don't do that, possibly due
to size restrictions on waterproof zippers. I won't buy a dry suit that
doesn't have a relief zipper of some sort.

I ordered my Kokatat with a relief zipper because everybody else was so
enthusiastic about the feature.

If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't order one.

Reasons:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) I can't see using it unless I'm standing on dry land. Given that, by
the time I need to use it, I'm so soaked with sweat that it's another
kind of relief to peel off the arms and torso anyhow.

2) When windsurfing, sometimes it gets in the way of the harness line
when I'm trying to re-hook.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

OTOH, if I were doing it again, I think I'd order the OS Systems product
instead because it looks like a off-the-shelf suit would fit me instead
of having to pay more for a semi-custom.
--
PeteCresswell

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

(PeteCresswell) wrote:

1) I can't see using it unless I'm standing on dry land. Given that, by
the time I need to use it, I'm so soaked with sweat that it's another
kind of relief to peel off the arms and torso anyhow.

By the time I need to use it, I need to use it because I'll **** my shorts
before I can get the #@*&^&$ drysuit off. YMMV.

Mike

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

Per (PeteCresswell):
The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down.

Here's another little minus for bag suits (at least the way most people use
them);

That nice, fluffy PolarTech or whatever that people wear under the suit for
insulation gets seriously compressed when you flop into the water and the
vacuum-pack effect sets in on the legs and lower torso.

The result is the opposite of what most would want: the suit is considerably
warmer when out of the water and *less* warm when immersed.

Still, I own one too - and I'm looking forward to getting back into it as soon
as a new neck seal arrives... But my old Bare Polar 5mm that I'm using for
backup is looking pretty to me right now...
--
PeteCresswell

Drysuit Fabrics, Goretex vs Whatever
 

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per (PeteCresswell):
The lower-body mobility was no contest: the neo john won hands-down.

Here's another little minus for bag suits (at least the way most people use
them);

That nice, fluffy PolarTech or whatever that people wear under the suit for
insulation gets seriously compressed when you flop into the water and the
vacuum-pack effect sets in on the legs and lower torso.

The result is the opposite of what most would want: the suit is considerably
warmer when out of the water and *less* warm when immersed.

That can easily be minimized by floating horizontal at the surface.
There's little need to stay vertical, anyway.