Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:01:16 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?
Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.
IT's not that difficult to put a proper connector on...even I can do it.

Of course you can.

And I'll bet you can solve quantum flux equations using only the
calculating power of your brain stem. :)


Only after my annual beer.

You're kidding about the difficulty in putting a connector on properly,
aren't you? I've done it at least a dozen times over the years the old
fashioned way (never used one of the quickie "crimp" connectors).

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.



PURE HOGWASH from the CB crowd.....

The Metz doesn't even have a cable...

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

"HK" wrote in message
. ..

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:


Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with
about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?



No. You can cut the wire to the length you need.


Not technically true, but probably doesn't matter in this application.
Performance of the radio is going to be marginal anyway. He'd be better off
coiling up the cable in a relatively large coil (not tight) for best
performance. It's length *does* affect proper antenna loading.

Eisboch

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:12:48 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Really.

Tell me why.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:14:19 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:01:16 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?
Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.
IT's not that difficult to put a proper connector on...even I can do it.

Of course you can.

And I'll bet you can solve quantum flux equations using only the
calculating power of your brain stem. :)


Only after my annual beer.

You're kidding about the difficulty in putting a connector on properly,
aren't you? I've done it at least a dozen times over the years the old
fashioned way (never used one of the quickie "crimp" connectors).

I believe you.

Honest.

No joke.

Wouldn't even think of debating the issue.

Your word is your bond, etc., etc., etc.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:11:55 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry

Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

No, but I was told that unless you know someone who can do a new
connection as good as the old connection, (which I was told will not be
done by the average DIY or boat mechanic) I was told it was better to
just wind it into a ring use some velcro to keep it out of the way.

Well, I know (?) Shortwave! He could probably tell me what to do.

"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?



No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Larry


True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

Eisboch

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.



PURE HOGWASH from the CB crowd.....

The Metz doesn't even have a cable...

Larry


I suggest you read the directions that came with your super duper Metz
regarding recommended cable length.

This is not CB science.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?


No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Larry


True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

Eisboch




Sheeesh. So long as you can reach the Coast Guard or SeaTow, I'm not
sure it matters, at least not for us near shore types. VHF is just a
clunky way to communicate when you have cell phones and friends out in
boats with cell phones.

"HK" wrote in message
. ..


You're kidding about the difficulty in putting a connector on properly,
aren't you? I've done it at least a dozen times over the years the old
fashioned way (never used one of the quickie "crimp" connectors).

Harry, the connector is not the issue (assuming it's done in a decent
manner).
The proper loading of any RF antenna is a complex relationship of the
designed output impedance of the radio, the characteristic impedance of the
transmission line (cable) and the impedance of the antenna.

Higher powered RF transmitters have tuning boxes between the radio output
and the transmission line/antenna arrangement that effectively changes the
length with capacitors and inductors to optimize power transfer.

I agree that at 25 watts and a on typical boat installation it isn't going
to make much difference.
To an RF engineer, it will all look and operate like trash anyway.

Eisboch