On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 15:59:14 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.

SWF,
I was trying to get you airfare down to Baltimore and you blew it.

I don't drive to Baltimore airport. I'd consider National though!

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.


IT's not that difficult to put a proper connector on...even I can do it.

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:01:16 -0400, HK wrote:

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:44:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 14:51:44 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Anyone - Is the performance of the 5' antenna seriously below that of the
8'er?


None whatsoever. I got to the horizon on a Metz Manta 6 halfwave at butt
level in a Sea Rayder jetboat all the time.

VHF only goes to the horizon, line of sight. To get further, you must
extend the horizon with ALTITUDE. 5' to 8' means nothing.

Screw a bunch of sun-destroyed fiberglass rods. The Metz is guaranteed for
life unless you lose the whip out of it. All the USCGs boats use the Metz,
a testimonial to its rugged construction. Completely self-contained. No
ground plane required. It'll work the horizon holding it in your hand.
http://www.metzcommunication.com/manta6.htm
Great company, too.

This guy has it on sale:
http://www.northeastmarineelectronics.com/index.asp?
PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2984
$34! That's half price!


Larry
Thanks for the tip, Larry.

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of wire.
Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by with about
3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.

IT's not that difficult to put a proper connector on...even I can do it.

Of course you can.

And I'll bet you can solve quantum flux equations using only the
calculating power of your brain stem. :)

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.



PURE HOGWASH from the CB crowd.....

The Metz doesn't even have a cable...

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

Yes - it's part of the loading for the antenna. There are forumlas
where you can cut the wire length down, but the problem is reattaching
the connector. You can use a mechanical connector, but they aren't
really a good idea.

Just roll it up and tuck it away.



PURE HOGWASH from the CB crowd.....

The Metz doesn't even have a cable...

Larry


I suggest you read the directions that came with your super duper Metz
regarding recommended cable length.

This is not CB science.

Eisboch

John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?



No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:12:48 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Really.

Tell me why.

Short Wave Sportfishing wrote in
:

On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:12:48 +0000, Larry wrote:

John H. wrote in
m:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get
by with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?

No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a
new connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable.
The Metz does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great
features. YOU put the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not
hard wired into the plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare
come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Really.

Tell me why.


No problem.....

Anywhere along the length of a transmission line terminated in its
characteristic impedance (the antennas and cable are 52 ohms), the
voltage and current are constant and there are no standing waves. In
reality, this is not possible, but it is very close.

The old CB nonsense was to use the transmission line's standing waves to
find a place where the impedance is close to 52 ohms. Unfortunately,
this changes with frequency and whatever is wrong with the antenna on the
other end. We hams have used tuned open wire feeders for 90 years or so.
But, none of these antenna systems and transmitters are designed to be
used with tuned feeders, which present the transmitter with a very odd
voltage to current phase relationship that may cause destruction of the
output amp stage.

If the VHF power amp brick detects the wrong impedance or phase, it turns
the power down to protect the brick....never a good thing.

So, in a tuned antenna system, it matters not where you place the
transmitter because the impedance load at any point on the transmission
line is very close to constant.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?



No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Larry


True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

Eisboch

Eisboch wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote in
:

Another question: Most antennae seem to come with about 20 feet of
wire. Mounted on a console with the radio right there, I could get by
with about 3 feet of wire. Is all the extra wire necessary?


No, it's not. If you're not a solderer, find someone who can put a new
connector on the radio end of your cable or make up a new cable. The Metz
does NOT have a cable attached to it....one of its great features. YOU
put
the cable on it so the cable can be replaced....not hard wired into the
plastic, like the little whips from Shakespeare come.

The farce of "tuning" the antenna with cable length is nonsense....

Larry


True, you don't "tune" the antenna with cable length, but you need a certain
amount of it to properly tune the antenna. My memory is rusty and I'd have
to go dig out the books, but I think you should have a 1/2 wavelength or so
in cable length. Maybe it's a 1/4 .... can't remember. Too short will
cause the antenna not to load properly (assuming it is the correct length)
and result in an excessive SWR value that reduces effective transmitted
power and, in the worst situation, cause damage to the output stage of the
radio.

Eisboch




Sheeesh. So long as you can reach the Coast Guard or SeaTow, I'm not
sure it matters, at least not for us near shore types. VHF is just a
clunky way to communicate when you have cell phones and friends out in
boats with cell phones.