Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

On Sep 19, 4:53?am, Warren wrote:
Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

It's common and correct practice to use copper tubing for diesel fuel
lines. You describe your rigging as "pipe", which could have joints in
it.
There should be no joints in your fuel lines. If you are extremely
concerned (and without seeing your setup it's hard to imagine why you
would be) I believe there is some ABYC approved specialized hose that
could be used instead.

On Sep 19, 7:53 am, Warren wrote:
Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

The copper pipe you refer to sounds more like it's copper tubing.
Copper tubing, for an application like this, is typically the same
grade they use in A/C systems, it's fairly soft and flexable, so it
holds up pretty well under vibration. I have to admitt, I prefer heavy
hoses for this kind of application, but the copper tubing is much less
expensive and easier to install. You don't have to measure out the
lengths and then go to a supplier to make up the hose. For copper, all
you need is a small pipe cutter and a flaring tool.

John

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren
wrote:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

That is not true, at least not on uninspected vessels. There are
flexible hoses rated for diesel fuel and they are quite common.

On Sep 19, 2:36?pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren
wrote:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

That is not true, at least not on uninspected vessels. There are
flexible hoses rated for diesel fuel and they are quite common.

We don't know how old the poster's boat might be.
My 1983 boat uses copper tubing for all fuel and return lines.
Certainly doesn't and wouldn't use "pipe," but I suspect the poster
really meant tubing.

If I were building a new boat, I would use properly rated hoses rather
than copper tubing.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:29:37 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote:

We don't know how old the poster's boat might be.
My 1983 boat uses copper tubing for all fuel and return lines.
Certainly doesn't and wouldn't use "pipe," but I suspect the poster
really meant tubing.

If I were building a new boat, I would use properly rated hoses rather
than copper tubing.

Our '81 GB has copper tubing in some places, approved hoses in others.
Not sure how it was originally equipped.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

Yes, the vibration will eventually cause the annealed tubing to work
harden and crack. New technology is available that will not have this
problem with vibration.... synthetic hoses. However, all of this
technology has service limits. When I removed the 1987 fuel fill and
vent lines from my boat a couple of years ago, they were hard and
cracked.

Properly installed copper may well outlast the rubber, but how do you
check it for condition? How many people know how to remove and anneal
these tubes the way old mechanics did?

I would also have concerns over the possibility of corroded brass
fittings (dezincification) and dissimilar metal corrosion from contact
between ferrous and non-ferrous metals (or maybe even aluminum and
copper).

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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On Sep 20, 10:26 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

Yes, the vibration will eventually cause the annealed tubing to work
harden and crack. New technology is available that will not have this
problem with vibration.... synthetic hoses. However, all of this
technology has service limits. When I removed the 1987 fuel fill and
vent lines from my boat a couple of years ago, they were hard and
cracked.

Properly installed copper may well outlast the rubber, but how do you
check it for condition? How many people know how to remove and anneal
these tubes the way old mechanics did?

I would also have concerns over the possibility of corroded brass
fittings (dezincification) and dissimilar metal corrosion from contact
between ferrous and non-ferrous metals (or maybe even aluminum and
copper).

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com- *Completion*Retention*Speed*
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-----------------

I think it is unlikely that soft copper lines would deteriorate enough
to be an issue during the typical life of an engine or even several
engines. If you are really concerned how about using steel line
instead. You can flare it with the same tools used to flare copper.
And you can use steel fittings which will reduce the likelyhood of
disimilar metal corrosion. But it will be more suseptible to rust
unless you use stainless. That might be cost prohibitive if you have
a lot of it. The marine approved flexible hose is probably the best
solution overall and it is fairly easy to inspect and replace with
ordinary tools.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 07:52:39 -0700, jamesgangnc penned the following
well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

On Sep 20, 10:26 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

Yes, the vibration will eventually cause the annealed tubing to work
harden and crack. New technology is available that will not have this
problem with vibration.... synthetic hoses. However, all of this
technology has service limits. When I removed the 1987 fuel fill and
vent lines from my boat a couple of years ago, they were hard and
cracked.

Properly installed copper may well outlast the rubber, but how do you
check it for condition? How many people know how to remove and anneal
these tubes the way old mechanics did?

I would also have concerns over the possibility of corroded brass
fittings (dezincification) and dissimilar metal corrosion from contact
between ferrous and non-ferrous metals (or maybe even aluminum and
copper).

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com- *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

I think it is unlikely that soft copper lines would deteriorate enough
to be an issue during the typical life of an engine or even several
engines. If you are really concerned how about using steel line
instead. You can flare it with the same tools used to flare copper.
And you can use steel fittings which will reduce the likelyhood of
disimilar metal corrosion. But it will be more suseptible to rust
unless you use stainless. That might be cost prohibitive if you have
a lot of it. The marine approved flexible hose is probably the best
solution overall and it is fairly easy to inspect and replace with
ordinary tools.

A fully supported, non-flexing, metallic line is a good conduit for
fuel.

The issue is about connections between the hull (non-moving) and the
engine (moving) causing vibration in the metallic tubing. That is not
a good scenario in any case as ALL metals will work harden. A flexing
connection should employ a flexible hose.

Depending upon your particular situation, a steel line may be no
better than a copper one, if you have an aluminum fuel tank.

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepage
http://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
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"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 20, 10:26 am, Gene Kearns
wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:53:06 -0700, Warren penned the following well
considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats:

Currently copper pipes are used for all diesel fuel lines.

I have a concern regarding their use between boat mounted fittings and
engine mounted fittings. Will the vibration of the engine cause an
eventual failure of these lines? These lines are about 2 feet long
and, from memory, there are three of them. All the lines are quarter
inch in size.

Yes, the vibration will eventually cause the annealed tubing to work
harden and crack. New technology is available that will not have this
problem with vibration.... synthetic hoses. However, all of this
technology has service limits. When I removed the 1987 fuel fill and
vent lines from my boat a couple of years ago, they were hard and
cracked.

Properly installed copper may well outlast the rubber, but how do you
check it for condition? How many people know how to remove and anneal
these tubes the way old mechanics did?

I would also have concerns over the possibility of corroded brass
fittings (dezincification) and dissimilar metal corrosion from contact
between ferrous and non-ferrous metals (or maybe even aluminum and
copper).

--

Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Oak Island, NC.

Homepagehttp://pamandgene.idleplay.net/

Rec.boats at Lee Yeaton's Bayguidehttp://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats
-----------------www.Newsgroup-Binaries.com- *Completion*Retention*Speed*
Access your favorite newsgroups from home or on the road
-----------------

I think it is unlikely that soft copper lines would deteriorate enough
to be an issue during the typical life of an engine or even several
engines. If you are really concerned how about using steel line
instead. You can flare it with the same tools used to flare copper.
And you can use steel fittings which will reduce the likelyhood of
disimilar metal corrosion. But it will be more suseptible to rust
unless you use stainless. That might be cost prohibitive if you have
a lot of it. The marine approved flexible hose is probably the best
solution overall and it is fairly easy to inspect and replace with
ordinary tools.


You can use the same flare tools, but steel fuel lines on cars must be
double flared. Do not know if that is required on a copper diesel line.