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#1
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Copper Tubing in Propane System
Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia.
rick On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote: I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency responders in hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank car to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of this contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
#2
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Copper Tubing in Propane System
How many folks are going to know to do that? How do you
know that you got contaminated propane? I can just see the looks on the face of the guy at the hardware store when I ask if I can dismantle his filling system to insert my filter Maybe this is why my surveyor requested that I remove all copper tubing in my propane system. Doug s/v Callista "none" wrote in message news Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia. rick On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote: I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency responders in hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank car to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of this contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
#3
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Copper Tubing in Propane System
Ahhhhhh... the most recent panic. Has anyone ever seen this happen? EVER? I
think I'll stick with what's been working on boats for years. -- Keith __ The mating call of a cash cow is MOOOOOOOOOOOLA" "jmax" wrote in message ... I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency responders in hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank car to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of this contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak. |
#4
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Copper Tubing in Propane System
Ahhhhhh... the most recent panic. Has anyone ever seen this happen? EVER? I
think I'll stick with what's been working on boats for years. I did have a copper tube spring leak on my propane system. Even though the tube was twenty years old, even though the leak was at a point from the installer had put a sharp bend in the line, even though there had to be some vibration in the line, even though just twenty pounds of propane had been run through the line in the previous ten years, I am absolutely positively unequivically sure the leak came about because some railroad car somewhere back in 1985 had trace amounts of amonia in it. So, I changed the tube. I really, really need my propane stove as backup in case my Atomic 4 doesn't blow up first. |
#5
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Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
What does the ABYC have to say about the connection from the tank to the
stove? Tom of the Swee****er Sea |
#6
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Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
A-1.9 FUEL LINES
A-1.9.1 As installed, the fuel supply line system and its components shall be compatible with LPG, and shall withstand the stresses and exposure of the marine environment. A-1.9.2 LPG fuel supply line shall comply with the construction, performance, manufacturing and test, and marking requirements of UL 21, LP Gas Hose, or A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L, conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm). A-1.9.3 Flexible LPG supply line shall be equipped with permanently attached end fittings, such as a swaged sleeve or sleeve and threaded insert. A-1.9.4 Metal tubing shall be connected by means of flare fittings. NOTE: “Long nut” flare fittings should be used. The short nut type fitting used in refrigeration systems can precipitate fatigue failure due to vibration. A-1.9.5 Fuel Line Location and Installation A-1.9.5.1 Fuel supply lines shall be protected from physical damage, and A-1.9.5.1.1 shall be accessible for inspection. A-1.9.5.2 A flexible LPG fuel line section shall be used to allow free swing of gimbaled stoves. A-1.9.5.3 Fuel supply lines shall be supported by clips or straps or other suitable means such as conduit or tray to prevent vibration damage, and (Clip a bunch about compatable supports and passthroughs) A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance. A-1.9.5.7 LPG fuel supply lines shall not be used for an electrical ground. Tom Shilson wrote: What does the ABYC have to say about the connection from the tank to the stove? Tom of the Swee****er Sea -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#7
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Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
Glenn Ashmore wrote:
A-1.9 FUEL LINES snip A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L, conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm). snip Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-) I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now. Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and is left as an exercise for the student. Tom of the Swee****er Sea |
#8
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Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
A short neck flare fitting is the kind you find at the hardware store.
They slope inwards at about a 45º over a distance of less than a tube diameter. A long neck has a slow curved slope that extends out about 3 tube diameters. It gives more support to the flair. Tom Shilson wrote: Glenn Ashmore wrote: A-1.9 FUEL LINES snip A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L, conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm). snip Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-) I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now. Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and is left as an exercise for the student. Tom of the Swee****er Sea -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#9
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Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubing in Propane System]
You yank it out when your surveyor says so and puts in
on the "Required" list. Doug s/v Callista "Tom Shilson" wrote in message ... Glenn Ashmore wrote: A-1.9 FUEL LINES snip A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L, conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm). snip Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-) I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now. Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and is left as an exercise for the student. Tom of the Swee****er Sea |
#10
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Copper Tubing in Propane System
it was a suggestion to mitigate an already unlikey scenario....have a good
day. rick On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:22:00 -0400, Doug Dotson wrote: How many folks are going to know to do that? How do you know that you got contaminated propane? I can just see the looks on the face of the guy at the hardware store when I ask if I can dismantle his filling system to insert my filter Maybe this is why my surveyor requested that I remove all copper tubing in my propane system. Doug s/v Callista "none" wrote in message news Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia. rick On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote: I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency responders in hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank car to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of this contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak. -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ |
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