Copper Tubing in Propane System
 

Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia.
rick

On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote:

I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency
responders in
hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the
Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank
car
to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a
propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of
this
contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper
Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane
cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to
prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak.





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Copper Tubing in Propane System
 

How many folks are going to know to do that? How do you
know that you got contaminated propane? I can just see the
looks on the face of the guy at the hardware store when I ask
if I can dismantle his filling system to insert my filter :)
Maybe this is why my surveyor requested that I remove all
copper tubing in my propane system.

Doug
s/v Callista

"none" wrote in message
...
Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia.
rick

On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote:

I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency
responders in
hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the
Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank
car
to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a
propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of
this
contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper
Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane
cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended
to
prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak.





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Copper Tubing in Propane System
 

Ahhhhhh... the most recent panic. Has anyone ever seen this happen? EVER? I
think I'll stick with what's been working on boats for years.

--


Keith
__
The mating call of a cash cow is MOOOOOOOOOOOLA"
"jmax" wrote in message
...
I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency responders
in
hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in the
Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank car
to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a
propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of this
contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The copper
Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated propane
cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended to
prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak.

Copper Tubing in Propane System
 

Ahhhhhh... the most recent panic. Has anyone ever seen this happen? EVER? I
think I'll stick with what's been working on boats for years.


I did have a copper tube spring leak on my propane system. Even though the
tube was twenty years old, even though the leak was at a point from the
installer had put a sharp bend in the line, even though there had to be some
vibration in the line, even though just twenty pounds of propane had been run
through the line in the previous ten years, I am absolutely positively
unequivically sure the leak came about because some railroad car somewhere back
in 1985 had trace amounts of amonia in it.

So, I changed the tube. I really, really need my propane stove as backup in
case my Atomic 4 doesn't blow up first.

Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
 

What does the ABYC have to say about the connection from the tank to the
stove?

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
 

A-1.9 FUEL LINES
A-1.9.1 As installed, the fuel supply line system and
its components shall be compatible with LPG, and shall
withstand the stresses and exposure of the marine
environment.
A-1.9.2 LPG fuel supply line shall comply with the
construction, performance, manufacturing and test, and
marking requirements of UL 21, LP Gas Hose, or
A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such
as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L,
conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for
Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not
less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm).
A-1.9.3 Flexible LPG supply line shall be equipped
with permanently attached end fittings, such as a swaged
sleeve or sleeve and threaded insert.
A-1.9.4 Metal tubing shall be connected by means of
flare fittings.
NOTE: “Long nut” flare fittings should be used. The
short nut type fitting used in refrigeration systems can
precipitate fatigue failure due to vibration.
A-1.9.5 Fuel Line Location and Installation
A-1.9.5.1 Fuel supply lines shall be protected from
physical damage, and
A-1.9.5.1.1 shall be accessible for inspection.
A-1.9.5.2 A flexible LPG fuel line section shall be
used to allow free swing of gimbaled stoves.
A-1.9.5.3 Fuel supply lines shall be supported by clips
or straps or other suitable means such as conduit or tray to
prevent vibration damage, and

(Clip a bunch about compatable supports and passthroughs)

A-1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths
of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device,
solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the
flexible section at the appliance.
A-1.9.5.7 LPG fuel supply lines shall not be used for
an electrical ground.

Tom Shilson wrote:
What does the ABYC have to say about the connection from the tank to the
stove?

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
 

Glenn Ashmore wrote:

A-1.9 FUEL LINES
snip
A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such
as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L,
conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for
Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not
less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm).
snip


Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-)

I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It
must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I
don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have
copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now.

Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I
would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be
checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and
is left as an exercise for the student.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubingin Propane System]
 

A short neck flare fitting is the kind you find at the hardware store.
They slope inwards at about a 45º over a distance of less than a tube
diameter. A long neck has a slow curved slope that extends out about 3
tube diameters. It gives more support to the flair.

Tom Shilson wrote:
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

A-1.9 FUEL LINES
snip
A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such
as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L,
conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for
Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not
less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm).

snip



Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-)

I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It
must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I
don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have
copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now.

Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I
would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be
checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and
is left as an exercise for the student.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Is There a Naval Architecht in the House? [WAS: Copper Tubing in Propane System]
 

You yank it out when your surveyor says so and puts in
on the "Required" list.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
...
Glenn Ashmore wrote:

A-1.9 FUEL LINES
snip
A-1.9.2.1 be corrosion resistant metallic tubing such
as annealed copper tubing, standard type, Grade K or L,
conforming to ASTM B88-75a, Specifications for
Seamless Copper Water Tube, with a wall thickness of not
less than 0.032 inches (0.815 mm).
snip


Well, I asked, but I got a bit more than I bargined for. :-)

I am surprised that copper tube is authorized, but I see that it is. It
must be protected against vibration, though. There are things that I
don't understand, like the short and long connectors. I don't have
copper tube, so it doesn't matter to me for now.

Back to the original point, since ABYC specifically allows copper, I
would not yank it out. Prudent seamanship would require that it be
checked for leaks regualarly. How regularly depends on conditions and
is left as an exercise for the student.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Copper Tubing in Propane System
 

it was a suggestion to mitigate an already unlikey scenario....have a good
day.
rick

On Sun, 16 May 2004 16:22:00 -0400, Doug Dotson
wrote:

How many folks are going to know to do that? How do you
know that you got contaminated propane? I can just see the
looks on the face of the guy at the hardware store when I ask
if I can dismantle his filling system to insert my filter :)
Maybe this is why my surveyor requested that I remove all
copper tubing in my propane system.

Doug
s/v Callista

"none" wrote in message
...
Or, one could make a filter filled with citric acid to trap the amonia.
rick

On Wed, 12 May 2004 22:08:40 -0700, jmax wrote:

I have spent many years teaching fire department and emergency
responders in
hazardous material responses. One very scary fact that I learned in
the
Haz-Mat response area is that the railroads utilize the same rail tank
car
to hall both Propane and Ammonia. As a result it is possible to get a
propane cylinder filled with ammonia contaminated gas. The impact of
this
contamination is that ammonia very rapidly dissolves copper. The
copper
Propane lines can leak explosive gas with even one contaminated
propane
cylinder fill. Removal of all copper tube and fittings is recommended
to
prevent this possibility of a explosive propane gas leak.





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/