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#1
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
On May 30, 7:36?pm, animal05 wrote:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/t...cle.aspx?story... For thousands of years, governments have proclaimed "give us more power, surrender some of your goods and/or liberties, and in return we promise to protect you from enemies both foreign and domestic" It's been a theme song for people trying to establish fascist, oppressive, totalitarianist regimes since Alexander marched on Persia. One of these days more people will wake up and realize that what we mostly need protection from *is* the darn government. They'll put a "tracking chip" in my boat over my dead body. The argument "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" just doesn't wash with me. I "fear" a society in which we all become property of the state. The logical step beyond monitoring where we come and go and when is then to begin dictating when and where we *can* come and go. The step beyond that is the creation of records detailing comings and goings that may *never* have occured-- framing a political opponent for a crime he or she did not commit isn't exactly an original idea. No tracking chip in my boat.....(although they may already have chips in every boat, home, vehicle, etc in the country)...at least not knowingly or voluntarily. I'd rather have 100 terrorists loose in the country (as horrible as that would absolutely be) than give up a single shred of constitutionally guaranteed freedom in exchange for a promise to protect us from the bad guys. |
#2
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
On 31 May 2007 15:31:54 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: On May 30, 7:36?pm, animal05 wrote: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/t...cle.aspx?story... For thousands of years, governments have proclaimed "give us more power, surrender some of your goods and/or liberties, and in return we promise to protect you from enemies both foreign and domestic" It's been a theme song for people trying to establish fascist, oppressive, totalitarianist regimes since Alexander marched on Persia. One of these days more people will wake up and realize that what we mostly need protection from *is* the darn government. They'll put a "tracking chip" in my boat over my dead body. The argument "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" just doesn't wash with me. I "fear" a society in which we all become property of the state. The logical step beyond monitoring where we come and go and when is then to begin dictating when and where we *can* come and go. The step beyond that is the creation of records detailing comings and goings that may *never* have occured-- framing a political opponent for a crime he or she did not commit isn't exactly an original idea. No tracking chip in my boat.....(although they may already have chips in every boat, home, vehicle, etc in the country)...at least not knowingly or voluntarily. I'd rather have 100 terrorists loose in the country (as horrible as that would absolutely be) than give up a single shred of constitutionally guaranteed freedom in exchange for a promise to protect us from the bad guys. Chuck, if chips are put in every boat, thousands of folks will be hired to monitor them. The size of the government will increase by leaps and bounds. Taxes will be raised tremendously. I would think any self-respecting liberal would love the idea! |
#3
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
On May 31, 5:10?pm, John H. wrote:
On 31 May 2007 15:31:54 -0700, Chuck Gould wrote: On May 30, 7:36?pm, animal05 wrote: http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/t...cle.aspx?story... For thousands of years, governments have proclaimed "give us more power, surrender some of your goods and/or liberties, and in return we promise to protect you from enemies both foreign and domestic" It's been a theme song for people trying to establish fascist, oppressive, totalitarianist regimes since Alexander marched on Persia. One of these days more people will wake up and realize that what we mostly need protection from *is* the darn government. They'll put a "tracking chip" in my boat over my dead body. The argument "If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear" just doesn't wash with me. I "fear" a society in which we all become property of the state. The logical step beyond monitoring where we come and go and when is then to begin dictating when and where we *can* come and go. The step beyond that is the creation of records detailing comings and goings that may *never* have occured-- framing a political opponent for a crime he or she did not commit isn't exactly an original idea. No tracking chip in my boat.....(although they may already have chips in every boat, home, vehicle, etc in the country)...at least not knowingly or voluntarily. I'd rather have 100 terrorists loose in the country (as horrible as that would absolutely be) than give up a single shred of constitutionally guaranteed freedom in exchange for a promise to protect us from the bad guys. Chuck, if chips are put in every boat, thousands of folks will be hired to monitor them. The size of the government will increase by leaps and bounds. Taxes will be raised tremendously. I would think any self-respecting liberal would love the idea!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - With all due respect, John, that's because you use a highly biased definition of "liberal". Not your fault, you're simply repeating something you hear all day every day. From my liberal perspective, there are two primary concepts of a progressive society. One is equal opportunity....(every new born baby should have the same opportunities as any other new born baby to become educated, apply self discipline and hard work to achieve, and perhaps ultimately prosper- without respect to race, religion, gender, parents' social status, etc). The other is maximized personal freedom. Government has no business abridging any of the rights outlined in the Constitution, even those rights (like keeping and bearing arms, or freedom of and/or from religion) that certain segments of society sort of wish would go away. I think you'd be surprised at the number of liberals who would like to see a small government, simply because we don't want to be messed with and government at all levels and by both parties has proven to be patently dishonest and entirely unworthy of trust. Bringing it 'round to my boat: If you're the government, you just don't want to mess with my boat. Doesn't matter if you're GWB, Hillary, Barak, Mitt, McCain, or whoever...stay the hell away from my boat. One of the reasons that a lot of people gravitate to boating is that it is an environment in which you get to take greater personal responsibility for your own welfare. If I neglect inspecting and maintaining systems aboard my boat- it's me and my family at risk more than anybody else. When underway, there's no traffic sign every 50 feet listing all the "thou shalts and shalt nots", I have to make good decisions based on what I observe going on around me rather than on what some traffic sign has to say. I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-) |
#4
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-) Many newer automobiles and trucks have GPS devices that transmit your location, speed, etc. to whoever is interested and can receive the data. Freedom and equal opportunity with personal assumption of responsibility are rights well worth protecting and improving upon. An equal rights welfare state simply because you exist is not because in the end freedom is lost and opportunity is determined and controlled by those with power. Eisboch |
#5
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
On May 31, 5:54�pm, "RCE" wrote:
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message ups.com... I find the concept of placing a transponder on my boat so that the government can keep track of where I go and when a gross violation of privacy as well as an insult. Screw 'em if they try, and regardless of whichever gang of thieves is in office at that moment. :-) Many newer automobiles and trucks have GPS devices that transmit your location, speed, etc. to whoever is interested and can receive the data. Freedom and equal opportunity with personal assumption of responsibility are rights well worth protecting and improving upon. *An equal rights welfare state simply because you exist is not because in the end freedom is lost and opportunity is determined and controlled by those with power. Eisboch We probably agree quite a bit here. Nobody should be the beneficiary of government largesse or fed from a public trough due solely to an accident of birth or station in life, whether it be high or low. That's why boating makes so darn much sense in life. You're more the master of your own fate than in most other pursuits. |
#6
posted to rec.boats
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We are now all Homeland Secuirty Threats
On Thu, 31 May 2007 17:32:21 -0700, Chuck Gould
wrote: - Show quoted text - With all due respect, John, that's because you use a highly biased definition of "liberal". Not your fault, you're simply repeating something you hear all day every day. Sorry, Chuck. I guess you couldn't see my tongue buried in my cheek. :) I don't like the idea of transponders in boats either. But, I didn't like the idea of recorders in my car telling anyone exactly how I've driven for the last 15000 miles either. I think the ones coming up with this idea are the same foolish idiots wanting to inspect every container after it's unloaded in a port. Once there, it's too late. Once a boat filled with explosives is under a bridge or alongside a cruise ship, or anchored close to a refinery, it's too late. |
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