In my first race I drafted as much as I could. I had difficulty staying
in the wake. I dont use rudder. I noticed that no one around me was
drafting.

ace wrote:
In my first race I drafted as much as I could. I had difficulty staying
in the wake. I dont use rudder. I noticed that no one around me was
drafting.

So why not use the darn rudder? I just don't understand the machisimo
that demands that 'real kayakers don't use a rudder'. I can make quick
corrections to my position and put the boat *exactly* where I want it by
using the rudder - without adjusting my stroke, weight, paddle, etc.
And we're talking about racing here - and in particular drafting - fine
positioning is important.

W/regard to drafting, it depends. A lot of paddlers don't practice
drafting, and don't feel comfortable doing so. Side riding is wetter in
a kayak, and you need to be very careful to give the person you are
drafting enough room. Coming from canoe racing, drafting is such a part
of paddling, it's automatic. Also, some races discourage drafting, or
will make special reference to sharing the work. In general, sitting on
for miles and then sprinting away near the finish is considered pretty
bad form, and will not earn the respect of your peers.

Marsh Jones wrote:
ace wrote:

In my first race I drafted as much as I could. I had difficulty staying
in the wake. I dont use rudder. I noticed that no one around me was
drafting.

So why not use the darn rudder? I just don't understand the machisimo
that demands that 'real kayakers don't use a rudder'. I can make quick
corrections to my position and put the boat *exactly* where I want it by
using the rudder - without adjusting my stroke, weight, paddle, etc. And
we're talking about racing here - and in particular drafting - fine
positioning is important.

Did it occur to you that perhaps his boat doesn't have a rudder? REAL
kayaks don't, you know... ;-)

Brian Nystrom wrote:
Marsh Jones wrote:
ace wrote:

In my first race I drafted as much as I could. I had difficulty staying
in the wake. I dont use rudder. I noticed that no one around me was
drafting.

So why not use the darn rudder? I just don't understand the machisimo
that demands that 'real kayakers don't use a rudder'. I can make
quick corrections to my position and put the boat *exactly* where I
want it by using the rudder - without adjusting my stroke, weight,
paddle, etc. And we're talking about racing here - and in particular
drafting - fine positioning is important.

Did it occur to you that perhaps his boat doesn't have a rudder? REAL
kayaks don't, you know... ;-)
Actually, yeah, it did. I recall from his previous thread that he hired
a CD Solstice GT for a race, so I assumed he chose not to use it.
Anyhow, real RACING kayaks DO have rudders :-)

Marsh Jones wrote:

Actually, yeah, it did. I recall from his previous thread that he hired
a CD Solstice GT for a race, so I assumed he chose not to use it.

The Solstice doesn't need a rudder - it tracks quite well. A rudder can be
useful on the Solstice in worst-case wind or current conditions, but most of the
time it is completely superfluous. I paddled one for five years and never used
the rudder once.

Unless he was dealing with a particularly bad crosswind or current, the rudder
would have just slowed him down.

Mike

I'm really conflicted about whether to use rudder. I had a heck of a
time when I was rounding two small islands on the course. ALso, it was
difficult if not impossible to stay in the wake of boats ahead of me
that i was drafting off of.
Michael Daly wrote:
Marsh Jones wrote:

Actually, yeah, it did. I recall from his previous thread that he hired
a CD Solstice GT for a race, so I assumed he chose not to use it.

The Solstice doesn't need a rudder - it tracks quite well. A rudder can be
useful on the Solstice in worst-case wind or current conditions, but most of the
time it is completely superfluous. I paddled one for five years and never used
the rudder once.

Unless he was dealing with a particularly bad crosswind or current, the rudder
would have just slowed him down.

Mike

I'm worried that the rudder will slow me down and I would have to learn
to brace myself with peddles that are not fixed. Thanks for sharing
your experience and knowledge. You really have helped me alot!

Marsh Jones wrote:
ace wrote:
In my first race I drafted as much as I could. I had difficulty staying
in the wake. I dont use rudder. I noticed that no one around me was
drafting.

So why not use the darn rudder? I just don't understand the machisimo
that demands that 'real kayakers don't use a rudder'. I can make quick
corrections to my position and put the boat *exactly* where I want it by
using the rudder - without adjusting my stroke, weight, paddle, etc.
And we're talking about racing here - and in particular drafting - fine
positioning is important.

W/regard to drafting, it depends. A lot of paddlers don't practice
drafting, and don't feel comfortable doing so. Side riding is wetter in
a kayak, and you need to be very careful to give the person you are
drafting enough room. Coming from canoe racing, drafting is such a part
of paddling, it's automatic. Also, some races discourage drafting, or
will make special reference to sharing the work. In general, sitting on
for miles and then sprinting away near the finish is considered pretty
bad form, and will not earn the respect of your peers.

ace wrote:
I'm really conflicted about whether to use rudder. I had a heck of a
time when I was rounding two small islands on the course. ALso, it was
difficult if not impossible to stay in the wake of boats ahead of me
that i was drafting off of.

The Solstice responds well to edging. If you know how to do that and use it
effectively, the rudder is not necessary. The Solstice GTS edges easily; the GT
is a bit of a challenge due to its high secondary stability.

In general, many ruddered kayaks handle reasonably well without rudder deployed
if the wind and current conditions are not too bad. As a rule, you should
paddle without the rudder until conditions really require it and then deploy.
If you find that you need the rudder almost all the time, the kayak is a poor
design. If you are paddling a Solstice and need the rudder a lot, you need
paddling lessons - the problem is in your technique.

If you use the rudder all the time regardless of need, you'll never learn to use
the kayak and paddle effectively and will be vulnerable if the rudder ever
breaks. If you have a problem with bracing on mushy pedals, remember that there
are gas-pedal style foot pedals that allow rudder use with firm bracing. You
can buy after market retrofit kits for most kayaks. I put Seaward pedals in my
Solstice (sold it a few years ago).

Unlike sea kayaks, racing kayaks are designed under the assumption that the
rudder will be used. They are not retractable and are always deployed.

You never see paddlers insist on rudders for canoes, racing or otherwise.
Personally, I don't see why kayaks should require them either.

Mike

Michael Daly wrote:
ace wrote:
I'm really conflicted about whether to use rudder. I had a heck of a
time when I was rounding two small islands on the course. ALso, it was
difficult if not impossible to stay in the wake of boats ahead of me
that i was drafting off of.

The Solstice responds well to edging. If you know how to do that and
use it effectively, the rudder is not necessary. The Solstice GTS edges
easily; the GT is a bit of a challenge due to its high secondary stability.

In general, many ruddered kayaks handle reasonably well without rudder
deployed if the wind and current conditions are not too bad. As a rule,
you should paddle without the rudder until conditions really require it
and then deploy. If you find that you need the rudder almost all the
time, the kayak is a poor design. If you are paddling a Solstice and
need the rudder a lot, you need paddling lessons - the problem is in
your technique.

If you use the rudder all the time regardless of need, you'll never
learn to use the kayak and paddle effectively and will be vulnerable if
the rudder ever breaks. If you have a problem with bracing on mushy
pedals, remember that there are gas-pedal style foot pedals that allow
rudder use with firm bracing. You can buy after market retrofit kits
for most kayaks. I put Seaward pedals in my Solstice (sold it a few
years ago).

Unlike sea kayaks, racing kayaks are designed under the assumption that
the rudder will be used. They are not retractable and are always deployed.

You never see paddlers insist on rudders for canoes, racing or
otherwise. Personally, I don't see why kayaks should require them either.

Mike
Mike,

Nice analysis. As I'm on the racing == racing boat side of the debate,
I almost always favor a rudder during a race - especially if I'm
planning on living within 4-5 feet of another kayak. As you correctly
point out, most well mannered boats respond very nicely to edging or a
quick offset of the paddle, and don't require a rudder unless you are
fighting persistent wind/wave/currents. OTOH, I think I'm faster with
the rudder down most of the time in any of the boats like the Epic,
Stratus or definitely any of the 'long, tippy boats'. They are
certainly designed to be paddled as flat as possible, edging some, and
using the rudder to tweak position or make quick moves.

There are several good pedal alternatives to the 'old-style' CD
push-push pegs. Their new pedals are fixed position and rotate to turn,
and there are also a couple of variants of fixed peg w/toe push. The
old Seal-line Smart-track, which CD bought, and a system out of NZ that
has nylon adjuster straps hooking to 'toe-flaps'. Both of these work
pretty well. If you are in the Twin Cities sometime, I'll be glad to
let you try either.

Marsh

BTW, racing canoes don't have rudders because they are/were outlawed.
If racers could use a small rudder instead of as many draws and prys to
make riding easier, we would. In a heartbeat.