"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart
gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is
connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small
passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the
passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly
filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in
the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down
position when adding lube.

I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not
fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an
outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and
volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the
alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so
the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble
removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The
alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service
manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be
in forward gear to remove the outdrive.

How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ?
Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was
buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean,
I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to
check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube.
I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to
worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information!




Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

wrote:

There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to
get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates
some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between
the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the
lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the
lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not
milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive
I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with
it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to
be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"katekebo" wrote in message
ups.com...
The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a
leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?


However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is
normal
that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil
change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five
trips,
and
consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after
an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed


Mr Wizzard wrote:
What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!


If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part
#4.
My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I
noticed
some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I
believe it
was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure.
It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.

Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).



--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"
wrote:


There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:

"katekebo" wrote in message
egroups.com...

The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?


However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is

normal

that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips,

and

consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed

Mr Wizzard wrote:

What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!

If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part
#4.
My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I

noticed

some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe
it
was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.


Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug.

WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can
with a homemade spigot.

Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ?
And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer?


(another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).

More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates
bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill.

The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't
see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the
filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch.






Rob

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...

Mr Wizzard wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"
wrote:



There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:


"katekebo" wrote in message
glegroups.com...


The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?



However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is

normal


that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips,

and


consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed

Mr Wizzard wrote:


What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!

If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part

#4.

My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I

noticed


some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe

it

was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.


Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug.

WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can
with a homemade spigot.


Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ?
And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer?


(another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).

More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates
bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill.


The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't
see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the
filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch.


Well, the gearcase is an enclosed, sealed, and frequently under pressure
& vacuum, so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and
fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to
recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your
displaced air as you fill the gearcase?

Rob

"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...

Mr Wizzard wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...


On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

wrote:



There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to
get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates
some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between
the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the
lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the
lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not
milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive
I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with
it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to
be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:


"katekebo" wrote in message
glegroups.com...


The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?



However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is

normal


that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil
change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips,

and


consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after
an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed

Mr Wizzard wrote:


What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!

If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part

#4.

My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I

noticed


some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I
believe

it

was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure.
It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.


Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug.

WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can
with a homemade spigot.


Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ?
And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer?


(another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).

More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates
bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill.


The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't
see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the
filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch.


Well, the gearcase is an enclosed, sealed, and frequently under pressure
& vacuum,

Pressure, and vacuum ? I sure hope not ! The gear lube
monitor bottle has a vented cap...

so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and
fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to
recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your
displaced air as you fill the gearcase?

Heavier gear lube runs down the hose from the gear lube
monitor container, and the lighter air travels up the hose,
into the lube monitor and out the vented cap. But hell,
I dunno - maybe there is some sort of check-valve on
the hose between the gear lube monitor tank and the drive?


Rob

The outdrive is a bit heavy. If you get everything just right you can
have the fin resting on a block of wood and sort of slide it out. I
can remove and reinstall mine myself. Most service manuals do recomend
you have a helper. It is simple to remove. Your really should get a
service manual.

Many people do not remove their outdrive every year. I take mine out
every 2-3 years so I can lube the u-joints and generally check it out.
I also split it to check the water pump. I change the lube on about
that same schedule. I put around 100 hours on my boat in a summer. I
do let a few drops of lube out the bottom periodically to check for
water and the general condition of the lube. The lube actually looks
good even when I change it but it only takes a couple bottles of lube
so why not.

I'm sure there are 20 year old alphas that have never been removed
running around out there. Sort of depends on how much you care about
stuff. Of course a few of those the owner misses what would be signs
of an approaching problem and ends up replacing or rebuilding the
entire unit.

I think most of the outboards recomend that you split them to check the
water pump every year. I would not argue that outboards have
advantages over i/os. But it is no free ride and a comparible hp
outboard will probably cost you $10k or more. And the parts for them
are extremely expensive when they break. This is because they are low
volume items. For any serious work they have to be removed from the
transom and that takes a lift because big outboards are heavy. I like
outboards for specific boating needs.

We are into the ski/wakeboard/kneeboard/tube stuff and an outboard is
just in the way when you are messing with ropes and getting people in
and out of the rear of the boat. With an i/o I have a nice clear
sundeck and built in full width swim platform. The i/o is well under
the swim deck and out of the way. I might consider a full inboard but
would never want an outboard for the way I use a boat. But to each his
own and maybe an outboard would suit you.

Boats are a high maintenance item. They are nothing like a car. They
are in the water which creates problems and their mechanical parts are
run a lot closer to the limits than a car. Drive your car around at
100 mph all the time and see how much maintenance you have to do to it.
Car engines are loafing most of the time. It's the reverse in a boat,
boat engines are almost always working pretty hard.

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart
gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is
connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small
passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the
passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly
filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it in
the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the down
position when adding lube.

I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not
fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an
outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and
volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the
alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so
the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any trouble
removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The
alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service
manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be
in forward gear to remove the outdrive.

How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ?
Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was
buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean,
I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to
check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube.
I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to
worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information!




Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

wrote:

There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to
get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates
some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between
the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the
lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the
lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not
milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive
I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with
it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to
be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"katekebo" wrote in message
ups.com...
The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a
leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?


However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is
normal
that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil
change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five
trips,
and
consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after
an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed


Mr Wizzard wrote:
What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!


If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part
#4.
My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I
noticed
some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I
believe it
was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure.
It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.

Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).



--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

The hole between the upper and lower unit is about 1/8 of an inch.
Getting air one way and lube the other way is just not going to work
very well. When you fill the unit you need to get nearly a quart of
lube in the lower unit. You need it filled before you use the thing.
I can't argue that filling the top and waiting may eventually get the
air out of the bottom might work. But I think it would take days.
Filling form the bottom works fine and when you're done, your done.

Just get the little plastic pump that goes on the top of a lube bottle.
It works fine and a gazzilion people have been doing it this way
forever.

In the case of the overflow normally you have very little fluid
changing places with air.

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"trainfan1" wrote in message
et...
Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"
wrote:


There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way to get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring between the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed. If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the outdrive I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live with it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat to be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:

"katekebo" wrote in message
egroups.com...

The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?


However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it is

normal

that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five trips,

and

consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips after an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed

Mr Wizzard wrote:

What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!

If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as part
#4.
My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until I

noticed

some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I believe
it
was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100% sure. It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the leak
stopped.


Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug.

WalMart. But I use a presurized 2 gallon (former) pesticide spray can
with a homemade spigot.

Homemade spigot ? is the drain plug a regular NPT thread ?
And you can get enough pressure with a pump-up sprayer?


(another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).

More physics than design. Filling from the bottom reduces/eliminates
bubbles & trapped air resulting in a more complete fill.

The lube is heavier than air, and is viscious, so I don't
see how you would get trapped air in the unit, and the
filler hose (from the lube monitor) is about 3/8-1/2 inch.






Rob

Pressure, and vacuum ? I sure hope not ! The gear lube
monitor bottle has a vented cap...

so if you don't vent the unit with the upper vent plug and
fill from the lower fill plug, you may have some better new method to
recommend to the MerCruiser people... where are you putting your
displaced air as you fill the gearcase?

Heavier gear lube runs down the hose from the gear lube
monitor container, and the lighter air travels up the hose,
into the lube monitor and out the vented cap. But hell,
I dunno - maybe there is some sort of check-valve on
the hose between the gear lube monitor tank and the drive?


Rob


There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top
would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take
to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a
long...long...long...long...long time.
Jim

Jim wrote:



There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top
would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take
to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a
long...long...long...long...long time.


Sure would!


Just fill it from the bottom and make your life easier.

Rob

trainfan1 wrote:
Jim wrote:



There is no check valve. I'm pretty sure filling the gearcase from the top
would work. Could you give me a rough estimate as to how long it would take
to fill an Alpha gearcase from the top. Seems to me that it would take a
long...long...long...long...long time.


Sure would!


Just fill it from the bottom and make your life easier.

Rob

Thanks for all of the great info. I'm still greatly dissapointed.
As many of you recall, this 2005 Bayliner 175 is my first
real boat (that I bought brand new jast June), and now I
got this gear oil consumption problem. I've recently called
the dealer about it too. Did some more tests, and find that
it uses about 2 Oz of oil for every 1-hour of running.

So, the question is, where is the most probable place
for the leak? Prop seal, driveshaft seal, or water pump?

And what could of done this? dealer dude (on phone)
doesn't seem to think that engine alignment would do it.
Would running it at excessive speed do it? Not too
long ago, I was running it at WOT for really long
periods of time - could that have done it?

I've only had the thing out 4 times this year since
winter - could something have happened over
winter? (Seattle area). I did scrape the fin on
drive way, but I consider that pretty minor.

I did also take the prop off recently to do what
the book said as "prop maintenance". Basically
clean and lube the shaft, anf reassemble - any
thing there I could have messed up?

How rare is it to develop gear lube consumption
problems on a 1-year old Alpha-1 I wonder?

And are replacing seals somehting that I can do?
(very mechaincally inclined). Issue is that dealer
says they won't be able to get me in till late Aug.
I was thinking that if its a prop seal, that maybe
I can just replace it. Also, whats involved with
changing the oil seal on the upper half? and the
shift lever? So what, 4 places the lube can leak
from, right? prop deal, upper drive shaft seal,
shift lever, and water pump area?

Thanks!
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
The outdrive is a bit heavy. If you get everything just right you can
have the fin resting on a block of wood and sort of slide it out. I
can remove and reinstall mine myself. Most service manuals do recomend
you have a helper. It is simple to remove. Your really should get a
service manual.

Many people do not remove their outdrive every year. I take mine out
every 2-3 years so I can lube the u-joints and generally check it out.
I also split it to check the water pump. I change the lube on about
that same schedule. I put around 100 hours on my boat in a summer. I
do let a few drops of lube out the bottom periodically to check for
water and the general condition of the lube. The lube actually looks
good even when I change it but it only takes a couple bottles of lube
so why not.

I'm sure there are 20 year old alphas that have never been removed
running around out there. Sort of depends on how much you care about
stuff. Of course a few of those the owner misses what would be signs
of an approaching problem and ends up replacing or rebuilding the
entire unit.

I think most of the outboards recomend that you split them to check the
water pump every year. I would not argue that outboards have
advantages over i/os. But it is no free ride and a comparible hp
outboard will probably cost you $10k or more. And the parts for them
are extremely expensive when they break. This is because they are low
volume items. For any serious work they have to be removed from the
transom and that takes a lift because big outboards are heavy. I like
outboards for specific boating needs.

We are into the ski/wakeboard/kneeboard/tube stuff and an outboard is
just in the way when you are messing with ropes and getting people in
and out of the rear of the boat. With an i/o I have a nice clear
sundeck and built in full width swim platform. The i/o is well under
the swim deck and out of the way. I might consider a full inboard but
would never want an outboard for the way I use a boat. But to each his
own and maybe an outboard would suit you.

Boats are a high maintenance item. They are nothing like a car. They
are in the water which creates problems and their mechanical parts are
run a lot closer to the limits than a car. Drive your car around at
100 mph all the time and see how much maintenance you have to do to it.
Car engines are loafing most of the time. It's the reverse in a boat,
boat engines are almost always working pretty hard.

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
oups.com...
It's just a little plastic plunger pump that fits in the top of quart
gear lube bottles. The gear lube does not circulate but it is
connected between the top and bottom halfs of the outdrive via small
passage. This is so the gear lube can expand when hot. Because the
passage is just a small hole the only way to get the drive properly
filled is to pump the lube up from the bottom drain. If you pour it
in
the top it just traps the bottom full of air. Drive should be the
down
position when adding lube.

I always said alphas were a bit of rube goldburg. They have not
fundamentally changed since the whole idea of bolting the bottom of an
outboard onto a auto engine started. The newer merc bravoes and
volvoes are better designed from an engineering standpoint. But the
alpha is not delicate and there are millions of them running around so
the parts are cheap. If you are a diy're you will not have any
trouble
removing the outdrive or splitting the lower and upper halfs. The
alignment tool is about $70 and is not very hard to do. A service
manual is a must as there are tricks you need to know like it must be
in forward gear to remove the outdrive.

How heavy is the outdrive? And what has to be disconnected ?
Very capable DIY-er, yeah, but I guess I didn't realize that I was
buying into a high-maintenance endeavor like this, thats all. I mean,
I'm not having to drop the transmission in my car every year to
check input shaft/throwout bearing alignment, and change gear lube.
I think my next boat will be an outboard so that I don't have to
worry about as much stuff. Thanks for the additional information!




Mr Wizzard wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On 17 Jul 2006 05:56:29 -0700, "jamesgangnc"

wrote:

There are a number of places where it can leak and not be noticed
in
the water. The exhaust and the bellows. There is really no way
to
get
much of a view into the bellows area. You have to pull the
outdrive
and check inside the belows for fluid. And then it's still hard
to
tell as the grease from the ujoints and coupler sometimes creates
some
oily fluid if it has been heavily lubed. Did you ever have the
pump
impeller replaced? Someone may have not used a new o-ring
between
the
upper and lower unit when they were split. Have you checked the
lower
unit for water in the lube? To do this you carefully remove the
lower
plug just enough to get a few drops out to see that they are not
milky
or contain water.

If it is still covered by a warrenty you can try to get it fixed.
If
not then as long as there was not any water getting in the
outdrive
I'd
be inclined to just check for water a few times a year and live
with
it
until the end of the season. The pull the outdrive and have it
pressure tested. At our house this is not the time for the boat
to
be
out of commission :-)

Mr Wizzard wrote:
"katekebo" wrote in message
ups.com...
The consumption should be "zero", nothing, unless you have a
leak.

Damn, I was afraid of that. So where could the leak be then ??
And if there is a "leak", out of curosity, why doesn't it leak
in
the driveway? (gravel pad). As I said, I see no signs anywhere.

Is there a remote chance that there was an air bubble in the
line
somewhere from the factory from last June when I bought it, and
it just boke loose somehow?

Has anyone here had experience with a leak in this new of
an Alpha 1 drive, nad what was the actual cause/resolution ?


However..... if you have changed the lubricant recently, it
is
normal
that few air bubbles will remain in the outdrive after an oil
change.
They will "purge" themselves during the first three to five
trips,
and
consequently the oil level will drop.

If the oil level continues dropping after the first 5 trips
after
an
oil change, then you have a leak that needs to be fixed


Mr Wizzard wrote:
What's normal for gear lube consumption for the
newer Alpha 1? I have a 2005 Bayliner 175
w/ Mercruiser 3.0L A-1 which has little plastuc
gear lube monitor. Only had it out 2-3 times
this year since winter, and I noticed that the
fluid level is down about 1/2 inch below the
"Add" line, and I'm concerned. Its *never*
gotten that low before! Today we stoped
in the middle of the lake and went swimming,
wading, and what not, and I looked very hard
for the "rainbow", and found nothing. No signs
of a leak anywhere. No smell, no film, all dry,
no rainbow on water. So if the Alpha-1 was
leaking/seeping gear lube, where would it be
going? prop shaft seal, shift lever? I wonder
if its leaking inside the bellows for the drive shaft ?
is there a way to see down in the bellows from
the inside?

I know everyone says that it should use NO
gear lube, I'm just wondering if there is any
acceptable amount of gear lube that a newer
Alpha-1 can consume before being concerned?
I have been running it pretty hard, and longer
periods of WOT, could that make a difference ?

Thanks!


If you look here http://tinyurl.com/ryp3d you'll see an o-ring as
part
#4.
My outdrive began leaking one year, and I didn't realize it until
I
noticed
some discoloration in the water as I was sitting at the dock. I
believe it
was this o-ring that was replaced by the shop, but I'm not 100%
sure.
It
was either an o-ring or seal in the outdrive. Once replaced the
leak
stopped.

Interesting web page, thanks! However, like I said
in an earlier post, there is absolutly no rainbow on
the water anywhere (looked long and hard). Also,
ans while we're on the subject, where does one get
a "pump" to change the gear lube? - I read that you
have to pump the lube "up" the drive from the bottom
drain plug. (another stupid-ass maintenance/design deal).



--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John