JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?


A quote from my mechanic, referring to my 1992 Taurus: "What kind of moron
engineer puts a bare fusible link under the motor, where it'll be bathed in
water & road salt constantly?"

Pinto & Mustang may not have hurt forever, but other sins certainly hang
around for a long time.

On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

(The best built in America or Europe for that matter!)
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

JohnH wrote:
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JohnH wrote:
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.



I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the
new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become
world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...



I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that
the new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may
become world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch


If you haven't seen them, goto:

http://www.askdrz.com/

You can skip the intro if you want, then click on the commercials. I get a
big kick out of the soccer ball shot, the ride in the Charger and the
Ram/Durango ones.

Eisboch

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JohnH wrote:
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.



I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the
new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become
world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch


I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had
on Mercedes.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

"JohnH" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that
the
new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become
world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch



I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had
on Mercedes.


There's a lot of flack going on, mainly among advertising groups, that think
the whole campaign is stupid and may hurt Mercedes. Personally, I think
it's sour grapes and a bit of resentment that they didn't come up with
something as good. They also are going to introduce the "Smart" car in the
US, reportedly in 2007. And, just for fun, they are going to build a retro
version of the Dodge Challenger as a mid 2008 model.

The ads are very careful not to mention Mercedes and there are no direct
references to Mercedes. Also ... in Europe ... a Mercedes is not the
glamorous car that it is here in the US, except for some of the performance
AGM models like the E55 and the new E66. (They had to come out with
something to compete with the BMW M5 and M6, you know) :-)

We have a Dodge Sprinter RV, which is built by Mercedes, has a little 5
cylinder Mercedes diesel and gets over 20 mpg. It replaces the old Ram
1500, 2500 and 3500 van series and is based on a design that has been used
in Europe as a work/cargo van for many years. I am very impressed with it,
performance and quality-wise.

If Ford and Chevy don't watch out, DaimlerChrysler is going to eat their
lunch in the coming years.

Eisboch

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:33:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:46:02 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that
the
new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become
world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch



I think a lot of Europeans are concerned that a negative affect may be had
on Mercedes.


There's a lot of flack going on, mainly among advertising groups, that think
the whole campaign is stupid and may hurt Mercedes. Personally, I think
it's sour grapes and a bit of resentment that they didn't come up with
something as good. They also are going to introduce the "Smart" car in the
US, reportedly in 2007. And, just for fun, they are going to build a retro
version of the Dodge Challenger as a mid 2008 model.

The ads are very careful not to mention Mercedes and there are no direct
references to Mercedes. Also ... in Europe ... a Mercedes is not the
glamorous car that it is here in the US, except for some of the performance
AGM models like the E55 and the new E66. (They had to come out with
something to compete with the BMW M5 and M6, you know) :-)

We have a Dodge Sprinter RV, which is built by Mercedes, has a little 5
cylinder Mercedes diesel and gets over 20 mpg. It replaces the old Ram
1500, 2500 and 3500 van series and is based on a design that has been used
in Europe as a work/cargo van for many years. I am very impressed with it,
performance and quality-wise.

If Ford and Chevy don't watch out, DaimlerChrysler is going to eat their
lunch in the coming years.

Eisboch


Tell me more about the Dodge Sprinter. I've been thinking of a small RV for
when the wife retires next year. Is it pretty liveable for three or four
week trips? Mileage? Maintenance problems (the old Dodge bugaboo)?
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Eisboch wrote:
The ads are very careful not to mention Mercedes and there are no direct
references to Mercedes. Also ... in Europe ... a Mercedes is not the
glamorous car that it is here in the US, except for some of the performance
AGM models like the E55 and the new E66. (They had to come out with
something to compete with the BMW M5 and M6, you know) :-)

When I was there in the late 70's-early 80's, a Mercedes was nothing
more than a diesel taxi-cab. with no glamour at all.


We have a Dodge Sprinter RV, which is built by Mercedes, has a little 5
cylinder Mercedes diesel and gets over 20 mpg. It replaces the old Ram
1500, 2500 and 3500 van series and is based on a design that has been used
in Europe as a work/cargo van for many years. I am very impressed with it,
performance and quality-wise.

I've seen some pics of the Sprinter van, but it was only a utility
model. it reminds me of a modern day version of a "Metro" van.

something that has the essence of cool, but will take a bit of getting
used to.