JohnH wrote:
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.

"basskisser" wrote in message
ups.com...

JohnH wrote:
On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:



You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!

Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.



I am getting a big kick out of the new advertisements for Dodge featuring
"Dr. Z" (who actually *is* Dieter Zetsche, the chairman of
DaimlerChrysler). I find them humorous and effective. Interesting that the
new Charger has a Mercedes designed suspension. Dodge/Chrysler may become
world class cars in the future if this marriage holds up.

Eisboch

basskisser wrote:
JohnH wrote:

On 12 Jul 2006 09:20:34 -0700, "basskisser" wrote:


JimH wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.



how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

You're correct. The best car built in America is the Ford Mustang GT!


Hmmm, I'll just say they're pretty! Consumer Reports actually rates the
newer 'stang quite high in both repair frequency, and used car value.


Nephew just bought a 2005 Mustang white convertible.
Wonder if he'd loan it to me so I can cruise the local beaches.

basskisser wrote:
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....

They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?

From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?


Bassy,
Bayliner quality problems lasted for at least 10 yrs, and covered most
(maybe all) of their product line. The average person buys a car and
expect to keep it for 3 to 5 years. So When someone buys a boat, they
expect to own the boat for for substantially longer period of time, so
when it started to show it's age after a year or two, and have problems
the owners unloaded the boat. They immediately became a disgruntled
former owner with a long memory, and the person who purchased the boat
became a new disgruntled owner, so the Bayliner Bashers really did have
a life of it's own. Even though who had not owned a Bayliner had seen
some of the POS at the Boat Brokers. Under powered, seats falling
aparts, windows leaking bad. You didn't have to get on the boat to see
how bad the boat was, anyone walking the docks would walk away with a
bad feeling about Bayliner.

Bayliner is considered a quality value boat today, but it looks to me
that they really put together a nice boat. It is not a fishing battle
wagon for fishing the canyons, but it is not supposed to be. I can't
remember the last time I heard someone talking about it being a POS. If
you notice, while some people have tried to get a Bayliner Bashing
thread going in rec.boats, it really didn't have any legs. It took them
a long time to shake off their reputation, but it looks like it is
behind them. I really think part of the reason the threads lasted so
long in the past is someone would try to "oversell" the quality of
Bayliner, instead of accepting Bayliner's marketing niche.
--
Reggie

That's my story and I am sticking to it!

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:43:00 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

basskisser wrote:
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....

They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?

From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?


Bassy,
Bayliner quality problems lasted for at least 10 yrs, and covered most
(maybe all) of their product line. The average person buys a car and
expect to keep it for 3 to 5 years. So When someone buys a boat, they
expect to own the boat for for substantially longer period of time, so
when it started to show it's age after a year or two, and have problems
the owners unloaded the boat. They immediately became a disgruntled
former owner with a long memory, and the person who purchased the boat
became a new disgruntled owner, so the Bayliner Bashers really did have
a life of it's own. Even though who had not owned a Bayliner had seen
some of the POS at the Boat Brokers. Under powered, seats falling
aparts, windows leaking bad. You didn't have to get on the boat to see
how bad the boat was, anyone walking the docks would walk away with a
bad feeling about Bayliner.

Bayliner is considered a quality value boat today, but it looks to me
that they really put together a nice boat. It is not a fishing battle
wagon for fishing the canyons, but it is not supposed to be. I can't
remember the last time I heard someone talking about it being a POS. If
you notice, while some people have tried to get a Bayliner Bashing
thread going in rec.boats, it really didn't have any legs. It took them
a long time to shake off their reputation, but it looks like it is
behind them. I really think part of the reason the threads lasted so
long in the past is someone would try to "oversell" the quality of
Bayliner, instead of accepting Bayliner's marketing niche.

I agree with what you said. I think much of the Bayliner Bashing of the
past was due to a famous Bayliner owner who was a participant in the group.
--
******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

John

Also when Leo Fender sold Fender Guitars out to CBS broadcasting..

thank goodness they recovered from that debacle when sold to private
investors in the late 80's
now their on top again....


basskisser wrote:
JimH wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


I've heard they are actually a pretty low-quality mfj. I know theres a
dealer that sells a few of them locally , but you don't see many of
them.

But I was thinking that if they are so bad, then how do they stay in
business?

Surely , I would think, they have to make something good.....


They do make a decent entry level boat on par with most other mass
production boats in the 17 to 25 foot range.


how did they get their dubious reputation?


From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

Yeah, what I don't understand is that fact, that because of the crap
they built in the 80's is still haunting them. Hell, Ford Pinto and
Mustang II hurt Ford for awhile, but not forever. Same with Chevy Vega
and the infamous 350 that was converted to a diesel didn't hurt GM for
long. Harley when AMF took them over?

wrote:
Also when Leo Fender sold Fender Guitars out to CBS broadcasting..

thank goodness they recovered from that debacle when sold to private
investors in the late 80's
now their on top again....

Couldn't agree more!


It seemed like that era seen a lot of manufactured items go to hell in
a handbasket!

" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message

From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

That and the fact that they are still a "price point" boat... ie a "starter
boat" via the low price point. They still have to cut a few corners here and
there to keep them underpriced.

-W

I would think that their resale value would be down the tubes if that
be the case.
I ahve heard, that on some models the transom was made out of particle
board instead of hard wood. anybody able to confirm that?



Clams Canino wrote:
" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message

From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

That and the fact that they are still a "price point" boat... ie a "starter
boat" via the low price point. They still have to cut a few corners here and
there to keep them underpriced.

-W

Clams Canino wrote:
" JimH" jimhUNDERSCOREosudad@yahooDOTcom wrote in message

From the crap the made in the 1980's. Their quality has improved
substantially since then.

Don't pay attention to the Bayliner basher crowd. They will always be
around and they most likely have never been on one recently.

Jim

That and the fact that they are still a "price point" boat... ie a "starter
boat" via the low price point. They still have to cut a few corners here and
there to keep them underpriced.

-W

Every manufacturer of anything cuts corners in some way.