Digital or analog?
I used a brand new Craftsman digital. Not the top of the line but not the
cheapie either. It was around $45 on clearance.




I tested the volt meter at the battery and got the full 12 volts. Testing
at the coil gives me nothing.

The coil (+) and... What did you use for a ground(-)?

I tried three spots for the negative lead. The negative battery terminal as
well as the engine block (scraped clean) and the negative coil terminal. And
I did ensure that the key was on at the time of the test.


I realize that my naivete is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a sufficient
ground though... no?










Hooking up a wire with gator clips to the positive side of the battery to
the positive side of the coil produces no change.

Do you mean that you still do not have 12 volts at the coil to ground?
What are you using for a ground on this test? There always has to be a
reference to ground or we cannot help you figure this out.

Keeps turning over nice
and strong, but no firing whatsoever.

You will get no spark ever if you don't get this 12 volts at the coil to
ground cranking first, and have the points set to open to the specified
gap twice every engine revolution.

How did you set the points gap?


By the way, I *did* remove the tach wire while conducting all tests.

You removed it from what? It should be one of two connections at the (-)
post on the coil. It won't make a lick of difference, though, if you
still do not have 12 volts at the coil(+) to ground(not coil"-") while
cranking.


I changed back to my original coil and performed the tests again. No
change.

It won't make any difference which coil you use to get the 12 volts coil
(+) to ground.

I am going to have to wait for daylight to continue this saga.

Let us know!


Rob

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat right?
If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a complete circuit.
If you can crank it then you do have power to the system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from Harbor
Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car and boat
in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or two.
Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes I have
done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of the
coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the alternator and
one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where each of these leads
go. Once you figure out where they go with key on test each beginning point
to see if you have 12v being supplied to the wire lead. Find a good spot on
the block and use this for all of your power tests. Be sure to also test it
to the positive side of the battery to make sure it is a good ground. The
idea of tracing the wires from the coil to their point of origin is to make
sure there are no fuses or circuit breakers that are in the system that have
blown or corroded connections that are blocking power. If you do find that
you do not have 12 volt in one of those supply locations then that will have
to be explored. Be advised that you may not have 12v coming from the
alternator as this may be powered only when the alt is actually turning but
you should be seeing 12v on the start circuit. When you have it running you
will have to replace all of the electrical tape that you will remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the points
sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter into ohms
and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the coil) to the
plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil to the base
plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points are really
supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this setup in place
have someone crank the engine you should now see the reading on the meter
flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these can be done with a test
light if you have one). Next test the resistance from the plate that holds
the points to a good place on the engine block, should see a reading of
zero. Next test from the engine block to the negative side of the battery,
should see a reading of zero. If you see a see a reading of 1 on the meter,
this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to tell
you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked. Because
it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They are not
pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you there is a
power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close to
zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

Agreed that there appear to be at least 2 problems. The first issue I would
tackle is: The same wire that pulls in the starter slave solenoid enables
12V to the coil thru contacts in the slave solenoid. I am very suspicious
that you can crank the engine but don't have 12V on the coil during
cranking. The only way I can account for that is if someone replaced the
solenoid with the wrong type or if the solenoid itself is bad.
Jim

"r_d" wrote in message
. com...

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat
right? If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a complete
circuit. If you can crank it then you do have power to the system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from Harbor
Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car and boat
in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or
two. Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes I
have done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of the
coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the alternator
and one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where each of these
leads go. Once you figure out where they go with key on test each
beginning point to see if you have 12v being supplied to the wire lead.
Find a good spot on the block and use this for all of your power tests.
Be sure to also test it to the positive side of the battery to make sure
it is a good ground. The idea of tracing the wires from the coil to their
point of origin is to make sure there are no fuses or circuit breakers
that are in the system that have blown or corroded connections that are
blocking power. If you do find that you do not have 12 volt in one of
those supply locations then that will have to be explored. Be advised
that you may not have 12v coming from the alternator as this may be
powered only when the alt is actually turning but you should be seeing 12v
on the start circuit. When you have it running you will have to replace
all of the electrical tape that you will remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the
points sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter
into ohms and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the
coil) to the plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil
to the base plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points
are really supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this
setup in place have someone crank the engine you should now see the
reading on the meter flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these
can be done with a test light if you have one). Next test the resistance
from the plate that holds the points to a good place on the engine block,
should see a reading of zero. Next test from the engine block to the
negative side of the battery, should see a reading of zero. If you see a
see a reading of 1 on the meter, this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to
tell you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked.
Because it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They
are not pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you there
is a power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close
to zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

OK Guys, I gave up.

I had a neighbor come take a look with a fresh set of eyes. He confirmed
that my thought process was sound, and things were set up correctly.

I brought the boat to the repair shop. We will see what they say next week.






"Jim" wrote in message
nk.net...
Agreed that there appear to be at least 2 problems. The first issue I
would tackle is: The same wire that pulls in the starter slave solenoid
enables 12V to the coil thru contacts in the slave solenoid. I am very
suspicious that you can crank the engine but don't have 12V on the coil
during cranking. The only way I can account for that is if someone
replaced the solenoid with the wrong type or if the solenoid itself is
bad.
Jim

"r_d" wrote in message
. com...

I realize that my naiveté is going to show here, but the boat is on the
trailer, and is NOT connected to the truck. I should still have a
sufficient ground though... no?



The battery you are using to crank and start the boat is in the boat
right? If so then it does not matter where the boat is as it is a
complete circuit. If you can crank it then you do have power to the
system.



The voltmeter is just fine. I actually use a $4 digital meter from
Harbor Freight when I work on something. Actually, have one in each car
and boat in case of break down.



You have two primary problems.



1. No power to the coil



2. No start once you plugged the coil into the battery.



First-- With the distributor cap off crank the engine a revolution or
two. Does the rotor turn? Is there a rotor installed under the cap (yes
I have done this.)?



1. You are going to have to trace the wires from the positive side of
the coil back to where they go. I suspect one leg will go to the
alternator and one to the starter solenoid. But you need to find where
each of these leads go. Once you figure out where they go with key on
test each beginning point to see if you have 12v being supplied to the
wire lead. Find a good spot on the block and use this for all of your
power tests. Be sure to also test it to the positive side of the battery
to make sure it is a good ground. The idea of tracing the wires from the
coil to their point of origin is to make sure there are no fuses or
circuit breakers that are in the system that have blown or corroded
connections that are blocking power. If you do find that you do not have
12 volt in one of those supply locations then that will have to be
explored. Be advised that you may not have 12v coming from the
alternator as this may be powered only when the alt is actually turning
but you should be seeing 12v on the start circuit. When you have it
running you will have to replace all of the electrical tape that you will
remove.



2. Remove the points negative (ground) wire from the coil. With the
points sitting on a flat lobe of the cam (points closed) put your meter
into ohms and test the resistance from the points wire (removed from the
coil) to the plate the points are sitting on (the points ground the coil
to the base plate in the distributor. You are tying to see if the points
are really supplying a ground, what resistance do you get? With this
setup in place have someone crank the engine you should now see the
reading on the meter flip as the circuit closes and opens (both of these
can be done with a test light if you have one). Next test the resistance
from the plate that holds the points to a good place on the engine block,
should see a reading of zero. Next test from the engine block to the
negative side of the battery, should see a reading of zero. If you see a
see a reading of 1 on the meter, this means the circuit is open.



Check the resistance of your coil ignition wire (wire from coil to cap
center) what do you get (your are trying to see if the wire is bad)?



Unfortunately, at this point you are on your own. Just make sure you are
seeing a real ground through the points and try to determine where in the
system the power to the coil has stopped. I really do not know what to
tell you. Hooking the coil directly to the battery should have worked.
Because it did not tells you, you have a problem with the points. They
are not pulsing the coil. And no power to the coil key on tells you
there is a power problem.



I would not get discouraged. Just systematically work you way though the
system. With the closed circuit you will see a reading of zero or close
to zero in ohms. If you see a reading of 1 then the circuit is open.



good luck,

mark

Now that he gave up , I got the same problem... One quick question..
Can you use an ohmeter to check the ignition coil? I get 11.3Kohms
across the secondary circuit (HV to points). Primary tests continuity
(0) at mOhm and Kohm ranges. This seems wrong.

Well, the problem is solved.

As suspected, there were a couple of issues contributing to the problem,
making it a bit more difficult to nail down.

The biggest problem was that the choke plate in the carb was bent to hell.
Seems someone in their infinite wisdom tried to play with the throttle while
they had a screwdriver stuck down the carb to keep the butterflies open.

The fuel filter / pump werefull of varnished fuel. So, although I drained
the tank and added fresh fuel, there is enough capacity in the lines,
filter, and carb to cause considerable grief on initial startup.

So, a rebuilt carb, an impeller kit, and a new battery has me ready for the
summer.

Total cost so far, including the initial price of the boat and trailer:
1844.00

I don't think I am upside down yet for a 1987 Rinker V19 Cuddy...

I have had the same problem, when i cranked it cranked kina slow, i did
all you did too but it would not start. i found that i had to replace
the starter. What was happening was the starter was draging and drawing
exessive amps and hence causing the engine not to start and the
cylindars not to fire. It is worth checking:

Pull the starter, and see how much play you have when you tip it back
and forth, execive play is bad, it is an exspensive fix but worth it,
and from what you are saying sounds like the fault.

Loren


TSC wrote:
Still working on this, and there must be something I am missing.

This is a 1987 Mercruiser Stern Drive with a 3.8 Litre 165 Horsepower four
cylinder

I have replaced...

Spark Plug Wires
Spark Plugs, gapped to specs
Distributor Cap
Rotor
Condenser
Ignition Points, gapped to specs
Coil

I have checked and rechecked to confirm the parts are correct for the
application

I have drained gas tank completely and added 10 gallons of fresh gas
I have tried with starting fluid
I have looked down the carb to verify that it is getting fuel
I have verified that the in-line circuit breaker is not tripped

There is NO spark whatsoever. It just turns over forever.

I have adjusted the timing every degree for 10 degrees in each direction and
there is NO spark.

Since I have replaced everything electrical that I can think of, and there
is still no spark, what else is there to do?

It has fuel. It has air. And all the electrical parts are new.

Previous owner inisists it ran fine when parked three seasons ago
(naturally).