"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


You obviously have no idea of the thoughts which go through the mind of
those who just received their draft notice. To explain these thoughts
and
the rationale for serving, would simply provide you with more
opportunity
to denigrate those who served, for whatever reason.

Unless you've been there, and done that, you are *not* capable of
understanding. Furthermore, your snide comments and innuendoes prove you
have no desire to do so.
John H


Do you realize what you're saying here? That when you vote for a
president, you give him complete carte blanche to start a war for any
reason at all, and you'll go, no matter what the reason?


Nobody said that. You are over-simplifying again.

RCE


Well, I have no choice but to take stabs in the dark, since you & John are
unwilling to explore your own beliefs and explain them. But, I have an idea.
I'm wondering if the issue is something like religion. If you wait until a
kid is too old, it's very difficult to drag them to a house of worship
without a lot of resistance. You won't like this term, but religion really
is a form of conditioning. It has to begin at a very early age. The belief
in unquestioning duty may be similar. If you don't get that sermon early in
your life, you think differently and independently.

In WWII, my father flew a TBF Avenger (torpedo bomber) from aircraft
carriers in the Pacific, and has a couple of scars across his chest from
flying debris. He came pretty close to cashing it in, in other words. He
joined the Navy voluntarily a month after Pearl Harbor was attacked. When I
was 17, he commented that something smelled all wrong about the Vietnam war.
Too much double talk, too much bull****, and in spite of the Gulf of Tonkin
incident, which many veterans had doubts about even then, he felt there was
no clear motive for our presence in Vietnam. He suggested that I begin
reading everything I could get my hands on, in terms of news, and make my
own decision in a deeply informed way.

You should hear what he says now about Bush, Rumsfeld and the other things
who are sending our kids to die in Iraq. "These are boys in suits they're
not old enough to wear".

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll
grind it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow,
we'll cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because
it's part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless,
nor does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the
end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid
may have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You
serve because it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If
that last statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

RCE



OK. You serve in spite of your questions. Thinking now of Iraq, who do you
think is BEING served?

On Tue, 09 May 2006 16:41:10 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"RCE" wrote in message
m...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll
grind it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow,
we'll cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because
it's part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless,
nor does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the
end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid
may have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You
serve because it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If
that last statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

RCE



OK. You serve in spite of your questions. Thinking now of Iraq, who do you
think is BEING served?


Meatloaf and mushroom gravy?
--
'Til next time,

John H

******************************************
***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
******************************************

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...



OK. You serve in spite of your questions. Thinking now of Iraq, who do you
think is BEING served?


I think I've been served enough of this crap and I am kicking myself for
posting my views. It won't change a thing in the minds of many. I know
that and wonder why I even get involved.

Best thing to do is for you to be happy with yourself and your viewpoints.
I don't share them, but it really does not matter.

RCE

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...



OK. You serve in spite of your questions. Thinking now of Iraq, who do
you think is BEING served?


I think I've been served enough of this crap and I am kicking myself for
posting my views. It won't change a thing in the minds of many. I know
that and wonder why I even get involved.

Best thing to do is for you to be happy with yourself and your viewpoints.
I don't share them, but it really does not matter.

RCE


Yes. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. But, I still find this
type of discussion useful. It helps to understand the mindset of people who
may decide to send MY son off to a war with no purpose.

RCE wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak, on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow, we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid may
have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions. In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.

Not necessarily. Some people think that in order to be considered
patriotic you have to lock step. Some people think that you can be a
patriot and not agree nor go along with everything the government tells
you.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

I've got several friends that were in Vietnam and while some are glad
they served their country, others are appalled by what the government
put them through.

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

RCE wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak,
on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll
grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow,
we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody
else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because
it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their
children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why
do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid
may
have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions.
In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.

Not necessarily. Some people think that in order to be considered
patriotic you have to lock step. Some people think that you can be a
patriot and not agree nor go along with everything the government tells
you.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

I've got several friends that were in Vietnam and while some are glad
they served their country, others are appalled by what the government
put them through.

Tell us what you think Basskisser. Please do it quickly before your head
explodes.

JIMinFL wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

RCE wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round steak,
on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll
grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow,
we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody
else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand because
it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless, nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their
children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends. Why
do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's kid
may
have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons. It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no exceptions.
In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal feelings.

Not necessarily. Some people think that in order to be considered
patriotic you have to lock step. Some people think that you can be a
patriot and not agree nor go along with everything the government tells
you.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive. It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

I've got several friends that were in Vietnam and while some are glad
they served their country, others are appalled by what the government
put them through.

Tell us what you think Basskisser. Please do it quickly before your head
explodes.

Okay, will do. I think your response was petty and childish. Grow up.

"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

JIMinFL wrote:
"basskisser" wrote in message
oups.com...

RCE wrote:
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"JohnH" wrote in message
...

Doug, today I'm going to make a meat loaf. I'll buy round
steak,
on
sale
for $1.99 a pound, half of what good hamburger costs. Then I'll
grind
it
myself. I've wondered what it must be like to get ground up
like
hamburger.

From your reply, above, I surmise that you could tell us!
John H

Just sit quietly, John. Try not to fall off the chair. Tomorrow,
we'll
cover benches.


To be honest Doug, I really feel badly for you. It must be quite
a
cross to bear, living the life of a perpetual cynic of everybody
else
in the world who does not subscribe to your depressing
philosophy.
There are far more effective ways to cause change than the style
you
have chosen.

And, as one last attempt, don't be so quick to categorically
condemn
those that served during Vietnam. Many very smart people did so,
motivated for reasons that you obviously cannot understand
because
it's
part of a character make-up that you lack. We are not mindless,
nor
does it necessarily mean we think the war was justified in the
end.


RCE


This may be simpler than you think. Most parents expect their
children
to not participate in destructive behaviors with errant friends.
Why
do
you expect them to sidestep this lesson for a war? It really makes
no
sense whatsoever. Go fight, because if you don't, someone else's
kid
may
have to take your place? That's absurd.


I repeat. You cannot understand. But that's ok. It takes all
kinds
to
make the world go around.
Subscribe to what you believe in .... if anything .... but please
don't
condemn those that chose otherwise for their own personal reasons.
It
does not mean they are bad people.

RCE


I'm capable of understanding absolutely anything, with no
exceptions.
In
this case, I need an explanation that goes a little further than
something
resembling religious faith, but I haven't seen it yet. "You serve
because
it's your duty, no matter WHAT. Period. No questions." If that last
statement is wrong, please modify it.


It's wrong. You serve in spite of your questions or personal
feelings.

Not necessarily. Some people think that in order to be considered
patriotic you have to lock step. Some people think that you can be a
patriot and not agree nor go along with everything the government tells
you.
I 'll give you a little bit of realism Doug. Combat troops in
Vietnam
spent
most of the time trying to stay alive and keep their friends alive.
It's
fortunate
that you weren't called for duty. With your outspoken philosophy in
that
environment
your "friends" would have painted a bull's eye on your forehead.

I've got several friends that were in Vietnam and while some are glad
they served their country, others are appalled by what the government
put them through.

Tell us what you think Basskisser. Please do it quickly before your head
explodes.

Okay, will do. I think your response was petty and childish. Grow up.
I"ll admit that was petty and childish. Does that mean you haven't formed
your own opinion based on your friends stories?

Doug Kanter wrote:
"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...



OK. You serve in spite of your questions. Thinking now of Iraq, who do
you think is BEING served?


I think I've been served enough of this crap and I am kicking myself for
posting my views. It won't change a thing in the minds of many. I know
that and wonder why I even get involved.

Best thing to do is for you to be happy with yourself and your viewpoints.
I don't share them, but it really does not matter.

RCE


Yes. Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. But, I still find this
type of discussion useful. It helps to understand the mindset of people who
may decide to send MY son off to a war with no purpose.


Then why not have these discussions in an appropriate group?

Between JimH's Kennedy post and JiminFl's anti Canadian and anti draft
resistor post we've got a good head start toward putting the NG right
back in toilet where it used to be. Nobody seems more dedicated to
perpetuating the problem than you, Doug. Weather still so foul up your
way that you can't go boating?