Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Here's another thought exercise for you. Don't debate each point which
begins with an asterisk. They're true. Wait for the question at the end.

* It requires energy to build everything, including cars.

* By nature of their design & manufacturing details, some cars are more
expendable than others. Therefore, their early demise and replacement
represents an earlier requirement for more energy use.

* Careful with this one: Regardless of the type of vehicle, some are made
more expendable due to the actions of the people who buy them.


This is the question: What could consumers do to reduce the tendency of
vehicles to be more quickly expendable?


I'll answer your question in the form of another truth asterisk:

* Not all, but some consumers purchase items, including cars, to use and
enjoy, not as investments in longevity.

I've forgotten ... do you currently own a boat? If so, do you enjoy it?
Is it really a necessity?

RCE


Now you're dancing. Humor me. What could consumers do to reduce the need to
manufacture so many vehicles?

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

* It requires energy to build everything, including cars.

* By nature of their design & manufacturing details, some cars are more
expendable than others. Therefore, their early demise and replacement
represents an earlier requirement for more energy use.

* Careful with this one: Regardless of the type of vehicle, some are made
more expendable due to the actions of the people who buy them.


This is the question: What could consumers do to reduce the tendency of
vehicles to be more quickly expendable?


Interesting, all this talk about the expendability and wastefulness of
certain types of cars. Odd, considering the nature of the group, that no
one has mentioned the expendability and wastefulness of pleasure boats and
the vehicles required to haul them around, assuming they're towable.
Heresy, or is it that goring an ox that lives a bit too close to home?

Let the stoning of the heretic begin.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...


So, in between an Escalade and a hybird, there are no in-between
solutions?


Yes, common sense. If hybrids and being politically correct floats
your boat, do so without preaching.

You are very defensive about all this. It's not absolutely NOTHING to do
with being politically correct. Nada. Zip.

Not defensive at all. I have nothing to be defensive about. I don't
have to burn up fuel in low MPG autos to still enjoy them.

If an Escalade floats your boat, do so, responsibly. The same applies
for everything in between.

Correct. It applies to everything in between. But, if your daily routine
(work, shopping) can't be altered, and sometimes it can't, there is a
floor - a minimum below which you cannot go, in terms of using a
vehicle.


I have a question for you. Do you believe that to an extent, the prices
of commodities are determined by demand?


Of course they are, as you say, "to an extent". But prices are also
determined by other factors as well, such as inflation, rising costs of
production, quality, etc.

RCE


If you personally have the ability to influence one of those factors, and
you are bothered by rising prices, do you think it makes no sense at all
to do your part to effect a change? I'm curious, because I'll bet you call
yourself patriotic.


LOL. It has nothing to do with being patriotic. It *does* have to do with
****ing against the wind.
At my stage in life, I pretty much accept things for what they are and can't
get too excited about joining crusades.


RCE

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...


So, in between an Escalade and a hybird, there are no in-between
solutions?


Yes, common sense. If hybrids and being politically correct floats
your boat, do so without preaching.

You are very defensive about all this. It's not absolutely NOTHING to do
with being politically correct. Nada. Zip.

Not defensive at all. I have nothing to be defensive about. I don't
have to burn up fuel in low MPG autos to still enjoy them.

If an Escalade floats your boat, do so, responsibly. The same applies
for everything in between.

Correct. It applies to everything in between. But, if your daily routine
(work, shopping) can't be altered, and sometimes it can't, there is a
floor - a minimum below which you cannot go, in terms of using a
vehicle.


I have a question for you. Do you believe that to an extent, the prices
of commodities are determined by demand?


Of course they are, as you say, "to an extent". But prices are also
determined by other factors as well, such as inflation, rising costs of
production, quality, etc.

RCE


If you personally have the ability to influence one of those factors, and
you are bothered by rising prices, do you think it makes no sense at all
to do your part to effect a change? I'm curious, because I'll bet you call
yourself patriotic.


*Effect* a change?

You start. Sell your boat, cars and other equipment powered by gasoline
engines. Let us know when are done with that simple task.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Here's another thought exercise for you. Don't debate each point which
begins with an asterisk. They're true. Wait for the question at the end.

* It requires energy to build everything, including cars.

* By nature of their design & manufacturing details, some cars are more
expendable than others. Therefore, their early demise and replacement
represents an earlier requirement for more energy use.

* Careful with this one: Regardless of the type of vehicle, some are
made more expendable due to the actions of the people who buy them.


This is the question: What could consumers do to reduce the tendency of
vehicles to be more quickly expendable?


I'll answer your question in the form of another truth asterisk:

* Not all, but some consumers purchase items, including cars, to use and
enjoy, not as investments in longevity.

I've forgotten ... do you currently own a boat? If so, do you enjoy it?
Is it really a necessity?

RCE


Now you're dancing. Humor me. What could consumers do to reduce the need
to manufacture so many vehicles?


Ok. I'll play along. The answer is, obviously, stop buying them. But then,
they stop being consumers as well.

RCE

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
Here's another thought exercise for you. Don't debate each point which
begins with an asterisk. They're true. Wait for the question at the end.

* It requires energy to build everything, including cars.

* By nature of their design & manufacturing details, some cars are more
expendable than others. Therefore, their early demise and replacement
represents an earlier requirement for more energy use.

* Careful with this one: Regardless of the type of vehicle, some are
made more expendable due to the actions of the people who buy them.


This is the question: What could consumers do to reduce the tendency of
vehicles to be more quickly expendable?


I'll answer your question in the form of another truth asterisk:

* Not all, but some consumers purchase items, including cars, to use and
enjoy, not as investments in longevity.

I've forgotten ... do you currently own a boat? If so, do you enjoy it?
Is it really a necessity?

RCE


Now you're dancing. Humor me. What could consumers do to reduce the need
to manufacture so many vehicles?


Ride a bike or walk everywhere. You start. Sell your cars. Then sell your
boat. Then sell any other gasoline powered equipment you own.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

If you personally have the ability to influence one of those factors, and
you are bothered by rising prices, do you think it makes no sense at all
to do your part to effect a change? I'm curious, because I'll bet you
call yourself patriotic.


*Effect* a change?

Yes. It's correct.



You start. Sell your boat, cars and other equipment powered by gasoline
engines. Let us know when are done with that simple task.


Another giant of a thinker. Where in this discussion do you think I
suggested that people get rid of their vehicles? Find the text and present
it as evidence of your conclusion.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

"RG" wrote in message
...

* It requires energy to build everything, including cars.

* By nature of their design & manufacturing details, some cars are more
expendable than others. Therefore, their early demise and replacement
represents an earlier requirement for more energy use.

* Careful with this one: Regardless of the type of vehicle, some are made
more expendable due to the actions of the people who buy them.


This is the question: What could consumers do to reduce the tendency of
vehicles to be more quickly expendable?


Interesting, all this talk about the expendability and wastefulness of
certain types of cars. Odd, considering the nature of the group, that no
one has mentioned the expendability and wastefulness of pleasure boats and
the vehicles required to haul them around, assuming they're towable.
Heresy, or is it that goring an ox that lives a bit too close to home?

Let the stoning of the heretic begin.


All manufactured products fit this category. But to keep things simple,
we're sticking to cars at the moment.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
. ..

Now you're dancing. Humor me. What could consumers do to reduce the need
to manufacture so many vehicles?


Ride a bike or walk everywhere. You start. Sell your cars. Then sell
your boat. Then sell any other gasoline powered equipment you own.


Stay quiet, and watch as RCE figures this out.

Peak Oil - counterargument
 

Now you're dancing. Humor me. What could consumers do to reduce the need
to manufacture so many vehicles?

Drive them less, maintain them better. In other words, make them last
longer.