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#2
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Diesel Engine Choice?
jps wrote: In article .com, says... jps wrote: In article , says... "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the following thoughts: IMHO... 4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves Thanks Gene. Which brand? I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins? I know Hino's have sleeves. Any faves? jps At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six cylinders. But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time. Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp. RCE I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications-- that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives. And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to diesel engine parts. Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact? jps Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance. I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000 hours." Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your boat. One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP, so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around 4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only 135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure. You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a blistering speed? Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same place twice. :-) Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than optimally affordably for most people. Good advice Chuck. I rarely exceed 12 kts. and probably wouldn't care if it were 8 or 9 if it cut costs. When we want to go out for a weekend, the San Juans are out of the question. Poulsbo, Silverdale, Port Orchard, Gig Harbor... I agree, easy cruise of no more than 2 hours to a nice destination. What I'm thinking about is the long term. My love of the gasoline powered engines is being forced to an abrupt halt. I want to have less impact on the planet, not to mention the wallet, so my choices a stop boating, get something far more fuel efficient or start sailing. Numbers 1 and 3 are painful propositions to me. For whatever reason, I love powerboats. Big ones, with lots of complicated systems. They're bliss to me. As someone said: Cruising is working on your boat in exotic locations. I'm thinking my best option (at this point) is a diesel powered vessel. That means either doing a conversion or buying something with 'em already installed. As we all know, these sorts of ambitions can take years to realize. I'm hoping that, by the time I make the next major move, I'm working from a well-thought-out plan. jps Survey the stink out of an older Taiwan trawler. You can own a decent 40-footer for under $100k, (but you may have to take a couple to survey to find one that's a keeper). Yeah, you'll be doing 8-9 kt. But you'll burn 300 gallons a year instead of 300 gallons a weekend. Big difference. Then put a shoreboat with a big, snarling outboard up on the boatdeck. When you just absolutely have to have a shot of 25 or 30 kt performance you can get the toy boat down and let 'er rip for 20-30 minutes to get it all out of your system. Going crazy speeds is for small boats, or for those unfortunate souls who have to travel 50 miles from home port to "get anywhere" or to find the continental shelf where the last surviving fish is rumored to hang out. If you want to enjoy a good sized cruising boat with comfortable accommodations and sophisticated systems and you're lucky enough to live where ideal cruising conditions begin about 20 yards beyond the breakwater of your home port, diesel is the right choice. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats
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Diesel Engine Choice?
In article .com,
says... jps wrote: In article .com, says... jps wrote: In article , says... "jps" wrote in message ... In article , says... On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the following thoughts: IMHO... 4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves Thanks Gene. Which brand? I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins? I know Hino's have sleeves. Any faves? jps At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six cylinders. But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time. Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp. RCE I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications-- that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives. And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to diesel engine parts. Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact? jps Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance. I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000 hours." Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your boat. One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP, so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around 4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only 135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure. You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a blistering speed? Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same place twice. :-) Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than optimally affordably for most people. Good advice Chuck. I rarely exceed 12 kts. and probably wouldn't care if it were 8 or 9 if it cut costs. When we want to go out for a weekend, the San Juans are out of the question. Poulsbo, Silverdale, Port Orchard, Gig Harbor... I agree, easy cruise of no more than 2 hours to a nice destination. What I'm thinking about is the long term. My love of the gasoline powered engines is being forced to an abrupt halt. I want to have less impact on the planet, not to mention the wallet, so my choices a stop boating, get something far more fuel efficient or start sailing. Numbers 1 and 3 are painful propositions to me. For whatever reason, I love powerboats. Big ones, with lots of complicated systems. They're bliss to me. As someone said: Cruising is working on your boat in exotic locations. I'm thinking my best option (at this point) is a diesel powered vessel. That means either doing a conversion or buying something with 'em already installed. As we all know, these sorts of ambitions can take years to realize. I'm hoping that, by the time I make the next major move, I'm working from a well-thought-out plan. jps Survey the stink out of an older Taiwan trawler. You can own a decent 40-footer for under $100k, (but you may have to take a couple to survey to find one that's a keeper). Yeah, you'll be doing 8-9 kt. But you'll burn 300 gallons a year instead of 300 gallons a weekend. Big difference. Then put a shoreboat with a big, snarling outboard up on the boatdeck. When you just absolutely have to have a shot of 25 or 30 kt performance you can get the toy boat down and let 'er rip for 20-30 minutes to get it all out of your system. I'll always keep the dink we have. 11' Whaler with a 25 horse merc. Little sucker screams and is really stable. Great for pulling crab pots. It thinks the big boat is just there to ferry it to fun spots. jps |
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