Diesel Engine Choice?
 

Can't afford to run gas engines in my preferred tonnage of boat, even
though gas engine boats are usually tens of thousands of dollars cheaper
at the start. Thinking about replacing gas engines or buying a boat
with.

Been through Pascoe and all that. Have been a fan of gas engines all my
life and would stick with 'em if it weren't insane at this point.
Gasoline isn't that much more expensive but diesels are simply better on
consumption.

I'm talking about pushing around a 25,000+# vessel with a planing hull
but perhaps just pushing it around at hull speed or slightly above.

Seen lots of different diesels in boats. Cummins, Detroit, Perkins,
Volvo, Hino, Yanmar, Mann, John Deere and, of course, Cat in natural and
turbo.

The major differences I understand a

2-cycle vs. 4-cycle
Natural vs. turbo
Aluminum vs. steel
Piston sleeves or not

If you were advising someone on what to look for/avoid, in either new or
used diesels, what would you say???

Thanks in advance,

jps

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

A lot has changed in Diesels in the past few years. One source you
should look at is www.boatdiesel.com, for $25/yr you can 'join' and
see all their archives. The past few months are free :-)

-al-


On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700, jps wrote:

Can't afford to run gas engines in my preferred tonnage of boat, even
though gas engine boats are usually tens of thousands of dollars cheaper
at the start. Thinking about replacing gas engines or buying a boat
with.

Been through Pascoe and all that. Have been a fan of gas engines all my
life and would stick with 'em if it weren't insane at this point.
Gasoline isn't that much more expensive but diesels are simply better on
consumption.

I'm talking about pushing around a 25,000+# vessel with a planing hull
but perhaps just pushing it around at hull speed or slightly above.

Seen lots of different diesels in boats. Cummins, Detroit, Perkins,
Volvo, Hino, Yanmar, Mann, John Deere and, of course, Cat in natural and
turbo.

The major differences I understand a

2-cycle vs. 4-cycle
Natural vs. turbo
Aluminum vs. steel
Piston sleeves or not

If you were advising someone on what to look for/avoid, in either new or
used diesels, what would you say???

Thanks in advance,

jps

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

In article ,
says...
A lot has changed in Diesels in the past few years. One source you
should look at is www.boatdiesel.com, for $25/yr you can 'join' and
see all their archives. The past few months are free :-)

-al-

Thanks Al,

Went digging around and got to some articles but the forums are
completely locked off for anyone other than members.

I remember running across this site before but don't recall it being
members only.

Diesel info must be a hot commodity!

jps

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd
six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long
time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according
to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

I don't know, but consider this. Back-up generators for hospitals, large
supermarkets, etc. are typically diesel powered and they sit for long
periods of time without running other than the occasional test run once a
month or so. My guess is that a diesel that sits unused for extended periods
of time is more forgiving than a gas powered counterpart. Also, diesel fuel
does not go "stale" like gasoline. With proper anti-biological additives it
can sit for months or years.

RCE

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

jps wrote:
I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

I say Baloney!

Check out Cummins. their Consolidated Diesel (the same type in the
dodge Pickup trucks) is very efficient. hold together well, and
replacement parts (if ever needed) are down to competetive marketing.
Cat is good stuff, but if you need anyting, hold on tight!
perkins is a cantankerous old engine that does well, but you don't get
the hr's out of them as you would the cat or cummins. a 2 cycle
Detroit was great in their day, but they like to leak oil regardless of
what configuration. They got a nink-name of "Drip-troit"

But they pushed boats for years. Odly enough, parts for the 2-cycle
"Jimmys' are high.
AND they suffer low end torque. you have to ahve them wound tight
(approx 24-2600 rpm) to get effeciency out of them.

I'd check out the marine versions of the 5.9 cummins myself.

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance.
I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north
slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000
hours."

Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently
sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go
to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something
else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you
have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your
boat.

One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when
you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to
HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP,
so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around
4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear
and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only
135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me
down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure.

You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a
blistering speed?
Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day
weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler
challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc
around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that
gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state
parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You
could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same
place twice. :-)

Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster
speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than
optimally affordably for most people.

Diesel Engine Choice?
 

In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

I don't know, but consider this. Back-up generators for hospitals, large
supermarkets, etc. are typically diesel powered and they sit for long
periods of time without running other than the occasional test run once a
month or so. My guess is that a diesel that sits unused for extended periods
of time is more forgiving than a gas powered counterpart. Also, diesel fuel
does not go "stale" like gasoline. With proper anti-biological additives it
can sit for months or years.

RCE

Good point but losing an engine in a parking lot is a bit less harrowing
than losing it at sea. I sure hope hospitals have backups to backups.

I like that fuel can sit but have also seen long threads about spending
multiple BU's on fuel conditioning, filtering. Doesn't matter, I'm sold
that I need to move away from gasoline. I wish I enjoyed sailing 'cause
I'd be all over it at this point. Nice little Atlas 4 cylinder and 7
knots would be so damned cheap to run.

Have you considered bio-diesel yet?

jps