I thought this was interesting if anything else....

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/comparing_diesel_types.htm

"jps" wrote in message
...


Have you considered bio-diesel yet?

jps

I have not. I'd like to see more long term tests of it before using it in
the boat engines. My boat was built in 1999, and I am not sure the use of
bio-diesel was planned for. I'd try using it in my truck first.

I've read and heard of problems with rubber seals, etc., none of which I
know exist for a fact.

One issue I have is that I have not used my boat much in the past couple of
years for cruising. It sits in the slip like a floating Cape Cod cottage.
I've been busy with other activities and just don't have the desire or time
to take it on a cruise and it's not the kind of boat that you take out to
run around for an afternoon. I almost took it south to Florida again last
year, but we ended up selling our property down there. Good thing I didn't
go, as Hurricane Wilma paid a visit.

I considered selling it last year, but decided against it. It's value has
depreciated to the point where further depreciation has leveled off and it
will be worth about the same in three more years as it is now. I've kept it
in like new condition and it's a very roomy and comfortable boat to spend a
week or more on when we want to get out of the house for a while. With fuel
prices as they are, my wife's boat, the Grand Banks, will be much more
practical for runs over to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.

RCE

One issue I have is that I have not used my boat much in the past couple of
years for cruising. It sits in the slip like a floating Cape Cod cottage.
I've been busy with other activities and just don't have the desire or time
to take it on a cruise and it's not the kind of boat that you take out to
run around for an afternoon. I almost took it south to Florida again last
year, but we ended up selling our property down there. Good thing I didn't
go, as Hurricane Wilma paid a visit.

I considered selling it last year, but decided against it. It's value has
depreciated to the point where further depreciation has leveled off and it
will be worth about the same in three more years as it is now. I've kept it
in like new condition and it's a very roomy and comfortable boat to spend a
week or more on when we want to get out of the house for a while. With fuel
prices as they are, my wife's boat, the Grand Banks, will be much more
practical for runs over to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.

RCE

One thing to also consider is the over-all cost of the repower to
diesel.

Look at the bottom line and see if it's actually worth the cost over
the even high cost of gasoline.

Tim

An older diesel engine with low hours is simply a lightly used diesel engine
and is almost without question in exceptional mechanical condition.

Old wives tales die hard.

Butch
wrote in message
oups.com...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd
six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long
time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in
according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance.
I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north
slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000
hours."

Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently
sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go
to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something
else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you
have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your
boat.

One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when
you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to
HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP,
so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around
4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear
and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only
135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me
down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure.

You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a
blistering speed?
Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day
weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler
challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc
around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that
gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state
parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You
could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same
place twice. :-)

Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster
speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than
optimally affordably for most people.

In article .com,
says...



One issue I have is that I have not used my boat much in the past couple of
years for cruising. It sits in the slip like a floating Cape Cod cottage.
I've been busy with other activities and just don't have the desire or time
to take it on a cruise and it's not the kind of boat that you take out to
run around for an afternoon. I almost took it south to Florida again last
year, but we ended up selling our property down there. Good thing I didn't
go, as Hurricane Wilma paid a visit.

I considered selling it last year, but decided against it. It's value has
depreciated to the point where further depreciation has leveled off and it
will be worth about the same in three more years as it is now. I've kept it
in like new condition and it's a very roomy and comfortable boat to spend a
week or more on when we want to get out of the house for a while. With fuel
prices as they are, my wife's boat, the Grand Banks, will be much more
practical for runs over to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.

RCE

One thing to also consider is the over-all cost of the repower to
diesel.

Look at the bottom line and see if it's actually worth the cost over
the even high cost of gasoline.

Tim

I did exactly that when purchasing my Tolly with twin 454s. Figured I
could cruise for 10 years without eclipsing the difference in costs.

That was when gasoline was $1.33/gallon. Didn't count on the difference
a few years of war might make.

jps

In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance.
I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north
slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000
hours."

Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently
sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go
to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something
else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you
have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your
boat.

One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when
you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to
HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP,
so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around
4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear
and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only
135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me
down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure.

You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a
blistering speed?
Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day
weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler
challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc
around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that
gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state
parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You
could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same
place twice. :-)

Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster
speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than
optimally affordably for most people.

Good advice Chuck. I rarely exceed 12 kts. and probably wouldn't care
if it were 8 or 9 if it cut costs. When we want to go out for a
weekend, the San Juans are out of the question. Poulsbo, Silverdale,
Port Orchard, Gig Harbor...

I agree, easy cruise of no more than 2 hours to a nice destination.

What I'm thinking about is the long term. My love of the gasoline
powered engines is being forced to an abrupt halt. I want to have less
impact on the planet, not to mention the wallet, so my choices a stop
boating, get something far more fuel efficient or start sailing.
Numbers 1 and 3 are painful propositions to me. For whatever reason, I
love powerboats. Big ones, with lots of complicated systems. They're
bliss to me.

As someone said: Cruising is working on your boat in exotic locations.

I'm thinking my best option (at this point) is a diesel powered vessel.
That means either doing a conversion or buying something with 'em
already installed.

As we all know, these sorts of ambitions can take years to realize. I'm
hoping that, by the time I make the next major move, I'm working from a
well-thought-out plan.

jps

jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance.
I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north
slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000
hours."

Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently
sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go
to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something
else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you
have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your
boat.

One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when
you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to
HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP,
so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around
4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear
and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only
135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me
down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure.

You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a
blistering speed?
Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day
weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler
challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc
around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that
gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state
parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You
could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same
place twice. :-)

Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster
speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than
optimally affordably for most people.

Good advice Chuck. I rarely exceed 12 kts. and probably wouldn't care
if it were 8 or 9 if it cut costs. When we want to go out for a
weekend, the San Juans are out of the question. Poulsbo, Silverdale,
Port Orchard, Gig Harbor...

I agree, easy cruise of no more than 2 hours to a nice destination.

What I'm thinking about is the long term. My love of the gasoline
powered engines is being forced to an abrupt halt. I want to have less
impact on the planet, not to mention the wallet, so my choices a stop
boating, get something far more fuel efficient or start sailing.
Numbers 1 and 3 are painful propositions to me. For whatever reason, I
love powerboats. Big ones, with lots of complicated systems. They're
bliss to me.

As someone said: Cruising is working on your boat in exotic locations.

I'm thinking my best option (at this point) is a diesel powered vessel.
That means either doing a conversion or buying something with 'em
already installed.

As we all know, these sorts of ambitions can take years to realize. I'm
hoping that, by the time I make the next major move, I'm working from a
well-thought-out plan.

jps

Survey the stink out of an older Taiwan trawler. You can own a decent
40-footer for under $100k, (but you may have to take a couple to survey
to find one that's a keeper). Yeah, you'll be doing 8-9 kt. But you'll
burn 300 gallons a year instead of 300 gallons a weekend.
Big difference. Then put a shoreboat with a big, snarling outboard up
on the boatdeck.
When you just absolutely have to have a shot of 25 or 30 kt performance
you can get the toy boat down and let 'er rip for 20-30 minutes to get
it all out of your system.

Going crazy speeds is for small boats, or for those unfortunate souls
who have to travel 50 miles from home port to "get anywhere" or to find
the continental shelf where the last surviving fish is rumored to hang
out. If you want to enjoy a good sized cruising boat with comfortable
accommodations and sophisticated systems and you're lucky enough to
live where ideal cruising conditions begin about 20 yards beyond the
breakwater of your home port, diesel is the right choice.

Shortwave Sportfishing wrote:
On 18 Apr 2006 19:22:42 -0700, "
wrote:

When you just absolutely have to have a shot of 25 or 30 kt performance
you can get the toy boat down and let 'er rip for 20-30 minutes to get
it all out of your system.

Ahem - excuse me? TOY boat?

~~ mutter ~~

yeah. T.O.Y. Top Of Yacht :-)

In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article .com,
says...

jps wrote:
In article ,
says...

"jps" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:20:52 -0700 in rec.boats, jps penned the
following thoughts:


IMHO...

4-cycle, Natural, steel, Piston sleeves

Thanks Gene. Which brand?

I don't think Cats have sleeves, Cummins are aluminum, Perkins?

I know Hino's have sleeves.

Any faves?

jps

At least some of the Volvo's have sleeves. Mine does, but are turbo'd six
cylinders.

But, a naturally aspirated small diesel is likely to last a long, long time.
Replaceable sleeves may not be all that important. At 6000+ hours the
original Ford Lehman in my wife's Grand Banks is just broken in according to
Bob Smith of American Diesel Corp.

RCE

I keep hearing that boat hours are different than normal applications--
that'd have diesels running constantly for those long-hour lives.

And, that low hour diesels should be gazed upon with suspicion (not that
any engine shouldn't be suspect) since infrequent use is not kindly to
diesel engine parts.

Is this baloney or is there some basis in fact?

jps

Those engines that run constantly usually get exceptional maintenance.
I'm thinking of some of the diesels that run power plants on the north
slope, where operating manuals call for a minor overhaul "every 20,000
hours."

Run as fast as you can from any used diesel that isn't currently
sitting in a boat. There had to be some reason that somebody would go
to the expense of removing the engine and replacing it with something
else, and you might not find out what the reason was until after you
have gone to the expense of paying to have the engine installed in your
boat.

One of the common rules of thumb (will always come in handy when
you're trying to finger something out) is that a 2 to 1 ratio of CID to
HP is desirable. My original Perkins was 354 CID and developed 165 HP,
so that was a good combo. When that engine bit the dust at right around
4000 hours, it was a failed exhaust manifold rather than internal wear
and tear that did it in. My new engine is also 354 CID, develops only
135 HP, and has a FWC exhaust manifold so I don't expect it to let me
down again when I get to that 4000 hour figure.

You boat on Puget Sound. Where the heck you think you need to go at a
blistering speed?
Almost nobody but the greenest of peas seriously attempts to do two-day
weekends in the San Juans from Seattle or points south. Take my trawler
challenge: Get out a paper chart (remember those?) and draw a 32 nm arc
around your home port. That's a Saturday morning cruise in a boat that
gets 3-4 nmpg. Bet you'll count 20-40 potential ports of call, state
parks,cozy anchorages, waterfront bars, and marinas in that space. You
could boat every other weekend for a year and never visit the same
place twice. :-)

Speed is going to cost you, whether gas or diesel. It's that monster
speed, not the choice of fuel, that will make boating less than
optimally affordably for most people.

Good advice Chuck. I rarely exceed 12 kts. and probably wouldn't care
if it were 8 or 9 if it cut costs. When we want to go out for a
weekend, the San Juans are out of the question. Poulsbo, Silverdale,
Port Orchard, Gig Harbor...

I agree, easy cruise of no more than 2 hours to a nice destination.

What I'm thinking about is the long term. My love of the gasoline
powered engines is being forced to an abrupt halt. I want to have less
impact on the planet, not to mention the wallet, so my choices a stop
boating, get something far more fuel efficient or start sailing.
Numbers 1 and 3 are painful propositions to me. For whatever reason, I
love powerboats. Big ones, with lots of complicated systems. They're
bliss to me.

As someone said: Cruising is working on your boat in exotic locations.

I'm thinking my best option (at this point) is a diesel powered vessel.
That means either doing a conversion or buying something with 'em
already installed.

As we all know, these sorts of ambitions can take years to realize. I'm
hoping that, by the time I make the next major move, I'm working from a
well-thought-out plan.

jps

Survey the stink out of an older Taiwan trawler. You can own a decent
40-footer for under $100k, (but you may have to take a couple to survey
to find one that's a keeper). Yeah, you'll be doing 8-9 kt. But you'll
burn 300 gallons a year instead of 300 gallons a weekend.
Big difference. Then put a shoreboat with a big, snarling outboard up
on the boatdeck.
When you just absolutely have to have a shot of 25 or 30 kt performance
you can get the toy boat down and let 'er rip for 20-30 minutes to get
it all out of your system.

I'll always keep the dink we have. 11' Whaler with a 25 horse merc.
Little sucker screams and is really stable. Great for pulling crab
pots.

It thinks the big boat is just there to ferry it to fun spots.

jps

I have this engine in my trawler and am very pleased with it so far. It
has 2200 hours and runs like a top. I switched it to Amsoil 15-40W
marine diesel oil run through a bypass filter and hope it will give me
20,000 hours. I run it between 1600 and 2000rpm and get about 3mpg. Ask
me when I'm even older and I'll tell you how it worked out.

Capt. Jeff