That time of year again!
 

Dan Krueger wrote:


""Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even
begin to establish a level playing field." In what world? What is a
level playing field anyway? If they are good, they get paid well. If
they are lazy or they don't like to report for work on time, they are
gone.

"The power of the employer to withhold pay"? What the hell is that
about. They work 9 hours, they get paid for 9 hours. It's the law, not
a power. There are other jobs out there. If someone is a hard worker
and not getting paid accordingly, there and many employers willing to
compensate them based on their individual merit.

So now every employee needs an agent? This isn't the NFL. When I run
an ad for a driver, for example, there are always at least three dozen
applicants. I choose the best and pay them what they are worth. In
fact, I tend to pay more so they are happy and don't feel like they have
to look for a better job the next day. It pays off in a number of ways:
Less training time & expense, more seasoned employees, solid customer
relationships, etc.

Dan

The way in which any person makes money from employees is by paying the
employee fewer dollars per hour in wages than the employee produces in
value. No secret, and nothing wrong with that in the least. Collective
bargaining allows the workers the opportunity to participate in the
decisions about how much of their productivity will be retained by
management. Nothing wrong with that in the least. If you don't have the
union signing up your truck drivers, it is probably becuase you pay a
fair and competitive wage and treat your employees properly. It's the
disgruntled workers that are susceptible to the siren song of the union
organizer, not the group that's happy and satisfied with current
conditions.

But striking a parallel to the Boat Show Exhibition Services situation:
Let's say you were the only trucking company in town. In fact, your
city council (equivalent to the show sponsor) has informed all the
businesses in town that they are legally required to do business with
your firm and no others if they use any trucking services at all. You
have been paying your truck drivers $35 an hour- but some schmuck from
Local 666 sneaks around the break room and gets everybody to vote in
the union. Now you're paying drivers $45 an hour instead of $35. If you
raise the price for hauling a load of scrap metal
across town from $500 to $1100 (and we'll assume the average driving
time is two hours for this run), it's pretty tough to blame the
increase on "union labor"...........but it's commonly done.

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates.
Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union
controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal
with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about
getting charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.



Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.


The rules are dictated to them by the union.



Yeah, right...a kid dentist living in Naples, Florida, knows how the
"system" works.

So where do the unions send their campaign contributions and who owns
the convention centers?

Dictated might not be the correct word, but the result it the same.

That time of year again!
 

wrote in message
ps.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:


""Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even
begin to establish a level playing field." In what world? What is a
level playing field anyway? If they are good, they get paid well. If
they are lazy or they don't like to report for work on time, they are
gone.

"The power of the employer to withhold pay"? What the hell is that
about. They work 9 hours, they get paid for 9 hours. It's the law, not
a power. There are other jobs out there. If someone is a hard worker
and not getting paid accordingly, there and many employers willing to
compensate them based on their individual merit.

So now every employee needs an agent? This isn't the NFL. When I run
an ad for a driver, for example, there are always at least three dozen
applicants. I choose the best and pay them what they are worth. In
fact, I tend to pay more so they are happy and don't feel like they have
to look for a better job the next day. It pays off in a number of ways:
Less training time & expense, more seasoned employees, solid customer
relationships, etc.

Dan

The way in which any person makes money from employees is by paying the
employee fewer dollars per hour in wages than the employee produces in
value. No secret, and nothing wrong with that in the least. Collective
bargaining allows the workers the opportunity to participate in the
decisions about how much of their productivity will be retained by
management. Nothing wrong with that in the least. If you don't have the
union signing up your truck drivers, it is probably becuase you pay a
fair and competitive wage and treat your employees properly. It's the
disgruntled workers that are susceptible to the siren song of the union
organizer, not the group that's happy and satisfied with current
conditions.


Serenity now.......serenity now.

If I could offer some advice to you Chuck I would suggest you avoid non
boating related topics such as this and keep to boating related topics. I
recall you asking for such a commitment from others here just a month or so
ago.............but hey, I may be mistaken.

I don't think so though. :-)

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself
and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.


Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.


Got in late today, Kevin? Sorry, no receipts from McCormick place
from seven years ago - it might be more than $50 for a plug in now.
Read the other posts, I'm not the only one. No one else has disputed
the fact. Maybe they have been to trade shows.



I doubt you directly hired a union electrician to work on your exhibit
at McCormick.

Not at all. That convention, once billed as the largest in the US, has
move to Las Vegas due to the high costs. These are their words, not mine.

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal
with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about
getting charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.



Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.


The rules are dictated to them by the union.


Yeah, right...a kid dentist living in Naples, Florida, knows how the
"system" works.


So where do the unions send their campaign contributions and who owns
the convention centers?

Dictated might not be the correct word, but the result it the same.



Got any documentation aside from your demonstrated hatred of workers'
rights?

Worker's rights? If they work, they get paid. If they don't, they get
fired. If they can get a better job, they do. What other rights do they
have or need in a democracy?

That time of year again!
 

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $
10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are
all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay
a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord.
Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50.
Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost
hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking
for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you
deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about
getting charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.



Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.


The rules are dictated to them by the union.


Yeah, right...a kid dentist living in Naples, Florida, knows how
the "system" works.


So where do the unions send their campaign contributions and who
owns the convention centers?

Dictated might not be the correct word, but the result it the same.



Got any documentation aside from your demonstrated hatred of workers'
rights?


Worker's rights? If they work, they get paid. If they don't, they
get fired. If they can get a better job, they do. What other rights
do they have or need in a democracy?




Hahahahohohohehehe

Back to the middle ages we go.


Funny? How?

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic
control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in
yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.


Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.

Got in late today, Kevin? Sorry, no receipts from McCormick place
from seven years ago - it might be more than $50 for a plug in now.
Read the other posts, I'm not the only one. No one else has
disputed the fact. Maybe they have been to trade shows.



I doubt you directly hired a union electrician to work on your
exhibit at McCormick.


Not at all. That convention, once billed as the largest in the US,
has move to Las Vegas due to the high costs. These are their words,
not mine.



Las Vegas is one of the strongest union towns in the United States.

Guess the politicians aren't walking around with their hands out in Vegas.

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic
control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in
yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.


Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.

Got in late today, Kevin? Sorry, no receipts from McCormick place
from seven years ago - it might be more than $50 for a plug in now.
Read the other posts, I'm not the only one. No one else has
disputed the fact. Maybe they have been to trade shows.



I doubt you directly hired a union electrician to work on your
exhibit at McCormick.


Not at all. That convention, once billed as the largest in the US,
has move to Las Vegas due to the high costs. These are their words,
not mine.



Las Vegas is one of the strongest union towns in the United States.


Oh my! That Dan loves to shovel the c*ap. Thanks for catching him on
that one.

That time of year again!
 

Dan Krueger wrote:


Collective bargaining fails when all workers, good and bad, are treated
equal.

What prevents you from paying your top people more than the union
minimum?
If the employees are all treated "equally" regardless of merit, that's
a decision made by the employer, not the union.