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That time of year again!
The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp |
That time of year again!
Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp Don, you forgot to mention that the admission is ten Canadian dollars. :-) Until recently I would have ribbed you about that being only $3.17 US, but with the US dollar on its butt and the economy (in at least the western regions) of so-called "socialist" Canada absolutely roaring along, your loonie might even reach parity soon. You Canadians are pouring across the border to shop for, and (for a change) actually buy a lot of boats from Puget Sound area dealers and brokers. Ten bucks isn't too much for a boat show, IMO. We're paying $8-9 for movie tickets these days, and even so must now sit through 10-15 minutes of commercials in addition to the 10-15 minutes of "previews." A few years ago we had a company try to run Superyacht Shows in the Pacific NW. Admission for two was something like $150. Now that is a high ticket price. The sponsors openly admitted that the high price of admission was designed to keep the "common people" off the multi-million dollar boats. What the sponsors failed to acknowledge is that the customer base that actually qualifies to buy a $5-10mm (or more) boat justifiably expects to be wined and dined by the brokers- not asked to pay an extortionary price to shop for a boat. The show primarily drew people who simply wanted to *appear* qualified to spend that kind of money on a boat and were willing to pay a silly price to do so. The show organization company went broke, and that's just as well. IMO, boating isn't well served by phony or elitist attitudes. Those ten Canadian dollars to get into the show might be your smallest boating related expense of the year. |
That time of year again!
"Don White" wrote in message ... The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp That works out to about $8.70 USD. Not too bad. Do you have to also pay for parking? |
That time of year again!
JimH wrote:
"Don White" wrote in message ... The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp That works out to about $8.70 USD. Not too bad. Do you have to also pay for parking? No... parking free, although the overflow area is a bit muddy in this warm spell. |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same |
That time of year again!
" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about getting charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. |
That time of year again!
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Not in my area. |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? He'd haunt your house one night for that. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? Convention center jobs are going overseas? Union jobs certainly are. |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. You might call it "collective barganing" but it is really extortion. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. So solly Harry. You just changed the subject. We were talking about mandated rates at convention centers for union electricians and the mandate to use them. Why are you now talking about union rates on construction jobs??? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. BS! My 21 year old daughter works part time in a restaurant (she is a full time college student) and earns $10/hour. My soon to be 18 year old son will earn more than that/hour during the summer painting frigging houses. |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. You obviously have no knowledge of the construction contracting business. What do you do that's worth $50? You are assuming it take an hour to plug in one extension cord. That might be correct in the union world. You would know better! Dan |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? Convention center jobs are going overseas? Union jobs certainly are. Sure. US Corporations are taking us to the bottom, heading back to the middle ages. Nope, it is now all about brain not brawn. The unions have led businesses into bankruptcy or caused them to delegate their manufacturing to overseas in order to make a profit. That is indisputable. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. BS! My 21 year old daughter works part time in a restaurant (she is a full time college student) and earns $10/hour. My soon to be 18 year old son will earn more than that/hour during the summer painting frigging houses. What's your point? My statement was I don't know of a major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. Are you disputing me on that? Brain fart. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union electrician at a convention center is fair? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. You obviously have no knowledge of the construction contracting business. What do you do that's worth $50? This reminds me of the time I went down to Ft. Lauderdale to record some datacom lines at an major credit card company's data center. When I arrived I asked where the power outlet was to plug in my data line recorder. I was told that we can lift the floor tile but, we can not plug in the equipment without a union electrician. So, the network engineer called the electricians shop and asked for an electricain. An hour and forty-five minutes later the electrician showed up and plugged my equipment into the standard electric socket. Before, the electrician left he said to give him a call when I was ready to have the equipment unplugged. I responded "ok". Once the door shut the network engineer said that the electrical plug to my equipment would probably get accidentally kicked out of the electrical socket and that we would need to call the electricians shop to get a union electrician to unplug the equipment from the electrical outlet. The plug was accidentally kicked out and I went back to the airport to catch the next flight back to DC. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? Convention center jobs are going overseas? Union jobs certainly are. Sure. US Corporations are taking us to the bottom, heading back to the middle ages. How. They say they have job X and it pays Y. Take it or leave it. If you don't like what you are being offered by the big bad corporations then start your own and keep all of the money for yourself. There is maximum oppourtunity in the US of A and if you just want to sit around and wait for somebody to tell you what to do you will never make the big money. Or, if you want to put a little bit of sweat equity into something you will reap the rewards! |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular construction rate. Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not a construction job Harry. Don't you get it? It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not represented by the IBEW. Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland Convention Center. I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either. Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are negotiated with local contractors. ;-) |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union electrician at a convention center is fair? What I am saying is that the worker is not getting paid $50 for that; the contractor-employer is. And thus the rub. ;-) So how do you justify the charge? |
That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann... To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5 job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord. I own my business. I employ 13 non-union workers. I give them a decent wage AND benefits. No dues are required. And there is never a question as to where their retirement money is since no one, but them, can access it. Those who work hard get a bigger raise than those who don't. Strange concept? I guess the extension cord job is more lucrative if you don't have to pay dues AND a vig to a contractor who would pay me. Where's the other boat Krause? |
That time of year again!
wrote in message oups.com... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Check your bill. That simple forklift delivery was almost certainly billed to you by the show organizers, not directly by the union. The difference in the wage paid to a union fork lift operator (maybe $10 for a 15-minute delivery) and an illegal alien doing the same job (maybe $1.50 for a 15-minute delivery) isn't going to run the bill up to "hundreds of dollars". If the bill is hundreds of dollars, it's the show organizers or the display rental company that is profiting. Our local boat show rentals include basic 15-amp power to the booth and there is no restriction about plugging in you own display------------however, if you need more power than 15 amps or require specialized routing of wires etc there would be additional charges and it isn't unreasonable to pay a $50 minimum for a skilled electrician. Or is it actually your opinion that the difference between a $15/hr unionized concession stand worker (sellling $600 worth of junk food with a gross margin of over $500 per hour) and a $5.75/hr "guest worker" making almost the same sales- but not quite because the mental translation from Spanish to English takes a moment to do- would mean that everybody should be able to get into the show free? Are you really saying that the only reason there's an admission charge at all is to cover the difference in cost between workers smart enough to engage in collective bargaining with management and workers dumb enough or desperate enough to be exploited? You may be on to something. Let's kick out the unions everywhere. No more admission fees to state fairs, amusement parks, movie theaters, concerts, plays, boat shows, home shows, car shows, etc. I had no idea that the only reason admission to all forms of entertainment isn't completely complimentary was due to the difference between a living wage and a slave wage. Let them eat stale nachos, I wanna get in free. :-) My experience with setting up for boat shows has been that it is the display companies, not the union laborers, who rape and pillage. Example: A few shows back I arrived at the booth to find a very, very short table had been delivered. We had ordered a table with 40" legs so that one can either stand or sit behind it at various points during the day. I was looking at something that was too short to sit behind with a standard chair- let alone a stool- and would have placed our display far too low for comfortable viewing by show patrons. I went to the show office and complained, where I was informed that the table delivered to the booth was exactly what the publisher had requested. It wasn't of course, but any time there's a monopoly in place- as at a trade show- you can argue until you are three shades of blue in the face and get nowhere. I had to agree to pay over $100 to have the table removed and the proper table delivered, and had to sign a purchase agreement for that fee at the conclusion of the discussion. What burned my butt, big time, was when one of the company representatives showed up at the booth and asked, "Is this the place that needs the 40-inch table?" When I said yes, the company representative turned the little table on its side, *extended the telescoping legs to make it 40-inches high* (!) and said, "Have a nice show!" No union employee in sight, just an asshole who could have told me, when I complained, that the legs were adjustable. When the next show came around, I went out to IKEA and bought a table, two chairs, a carpet, etc for just about what Rape and Pillage Display wanted for a short term rental. We just used that gear for the 4th time in January- so I guess I have to thank that free enterprise crook who screwed me out of the hundred bucks for the leg adjustment. That ripoff incident inspired me to save some money- and the $100 the company virtually stole from me has cost that outfit close to $1000 in lost revenue so far. But you're right about at least one thing if not more. I'm sure the show display rental companies would be able to keep a bit more of their unconscionable fees if they could hire a greater number of illegal, unqualfied, or desperate workers. It's easy for any company or organization charging obscene prices to blame it on "the unions"- but in reality boat show display pricing is more the result of absurd profiteering in a monopolized market. Welcome back to the darkside Chuck. We knew you would come back. ;-) |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union electrician at a convention center is fair? What I am saying is that the worker is not getting paid $50 for that; the contractor-employer is. And thus the rub. ;-) So how do you justify the charge? I'm not an electrical contractor. I presume he charges a rate that covers his direct and indirect labor expenses, overhead, and a small profit. Ah, but the rate is mandated per the contract with the union hall......not by the contractor. You keep on missing the point Harry. Focus! So do all contractors have the same direct and indirect labor expenses, overhead and *small* profit margins? Does it cost each one of them (or any of them) $50 for their union electrician to plug in an extension cord? Could this activity safely be done by the exhibitor? |
That time of year again!
Dan Krueger wrote: "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. "Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even begin to establish a level playing field. Now, there are folks who don't think anybody except the guy with capital invested in a private company has any right to any sort of fair or equitable business/employment climate and that such a capital investment grants a license to exploit any and all dumb or desperate enough to work for the firm- and those who feel that way are entitled to do so. Otherwise, the power of the employer to withhold pay is merely offset by the power of the collective bargainers to withhold services. Seems pretty fair to me. One side uses every trick in the book to pay as little as it can get by with, and the other uses every trick in the book to get paid as much as it possibly can. Yup, that's fair. Not exclusively advantageous to management and capital- but fair. Without collective bargaining, it is the employer, not the worker, who ignores merit and does not differentiate between good and bad workers. Without collective bargaining, everybody's job is constantly at risk if some guy happens along who will whore out for a buck an hour less. If an employer is paying a decent wage, he has a right to demand excellence. If an employer is paying dog-crap wages, he isn't going to attract many workers who will hang around long enough to distinguish themselves from the herd by virtue of outstanding productivity or efficiency, and a lot of the guys paying dog-crap wages really aren't interested in finding the most cost efficient employees but rather just the lowest cost employees. |
That time of year again!
wrote in message oups.com... Dan Krueger wrote: "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. "Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even begin to establish a level playing field. Now, there are folks who don't think anybody except the guy with capital invested in a private company has any right to any sort of fair or equitable business/employment climate and that such a capital investment grants a license to exploit any and all dumb or desperate enough to work for the firm- and those who feel that way are entitled to do so. Otherwise, the power of the employer to withhold pay is merely offset by the power of the collective bargainers to withhold services. Seems pretty fair to me. One side uses every trick in the book to pay as little as it can get by with, and the other uses every trick in the book to get paid as much as it possibly can. Yup, that's fair. Not exclusively advantageous to management and capital- but fair. Without collective bargaining, it is the employer, not the worker, who ignores merit and does not differentiate between good and bad workers. Without collective bargaining, everybody's job is constantly at risk if some guy happens along who will whore out for a buck an hour less. If an employer is paying a decent wage, he has a right to demand excellence. If an employer is paying dog-crap wages, he isn't going to attract many workers who will hang around long enough to distinguish themselves from the herd by virtue of outstanding productivity or efficiency, and a lot of the guys paying dog-crap wages really aren't interested in finding the most cost efficient employees but rather just the lowest cost employees. Welcome back to the Dark Side Chuck. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular construction rate. Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not a construction job Harry. Don't you get it? It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not represented by the IBEW. Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland Convention Center. I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either. Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are negotiated with local contractors. ;-) Union rates result from collective bargaining negotiations. You seem to not understand the concept. Sure I do, but perhaps you do not. You previously stated that the costs are negotiated by the individual contractor(s). Did you forget that already Harry? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann... To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5 job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord. But what is it that you do that's worth $50? My company believes that I am worth more than $50 an hour. Your opinon or approval means nothing. Where's the other boat Krause? At the moment fully wrapped on the hard in southern Maryland. Is that the Parker or the Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular construction rate. Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not a construction job Harry. Don't you get it? It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not represented by the IBEW. Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland Convention Center. I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either. Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are negotiated with local contractors. ;-) Union rates result from collective bargaining negotiations. You seem to not understand the concept. The concept is well understood. We want this amount regardless of whether we do a good job or not. Pay for performance is common in the real business world. |
That time of year again!
JimH wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Check your bill. That simple forklift delivery was almost certainly billed to you by the show organizers, not directly by the union. The difference in the wage paid to a union fork lift operator (maybe $10 for a 15-minute delivery) and an illegal alien doing the same job (maybe $1.50 for a 15-minute delivery) isn't going to run the bill up to "hundreds of dollars". If the bill is hundreds of dollars, it's the show organizers or the display rental company that is profiting. Our local boat show rentals include basic 15-amp power to the booth and there is no restriction about plugging in you own display------------however, if you need more power than 15 amps or require specialized routing of wires etc there would be additional charges and it isn't unreasonable to pay a $50 minimum for a skilled electrician. Or is it actually your opinion that the difference between a $15/hr unionized concession stand worker (sellling $600 worth of junk food with a gross margin of over $500 per hour) and a $5.75/hr "guest worker" making almost the same sales- but not quite because the mental translation from Spanish to English takes a moment to do- would mean that everybody should be able to get into the show free? Are you really saying that the only reason there's an admission charge at all is to cover the difference in cost between workers smart enough to engage in collective bargaining with management and workers dumb enough or desperate enough to be exploited? You may be on to something. Let's kick out the unions everywhere. No more admission fees to state fairs, amusement parks, movie theaters, concerts, plays, boat shows, home shows, car shows, etc. I had no idea that the only reason admission to all forms of entertainment isn't completely complimentary was due to the difference between a living wage and a slave wage. Let them eat stale nachos, I wanna get in free. :-) My experience with setting up for boat shows has been that it is the display companies, not the union laborers, who rape and pillage. Example: A few shows back I arrived at the booth to find a very, very short table had been delivered. We had ordered a table with 40" legs so that one can either stand or sit behind it at various points during the day. I was looking at something that was too short to sit behind with a standard chair- let alone a stool- and would have placed our display far too low for comfortable viewing by show patrons. I went to the show office and complained, where I was informed that the table delivered to the booth was exactly what the publisher had requested. It wasn't of course, but any time there's a monopoly in place- as at a trade show- you can argue until you are three shades of blue in the face and get nowhere. I had to agree to pay over $100 to have the table removed and the proper table delivered, and had to sign a purchase agreement for that fee at the conclusion of the discussion. What burned my butt, big time, was when one of the company representatives showed up at the booth and asked, "Is this the place that needs the 40-inch table?" When I said yes, the company representative turned the little table on its side, *extended the telescoping legs to make it 40-inches high* (!) and said, "Have a nice show!" No union employee in sight, just an asshole who could have told me, when I complained, that the legs were adjustable. When the next show came around, I went out to IKEA and bought a table, two chairs, a carpet, etc for just about what Rape and Pillage Display wanted for a short term rental. We just used that gear for the 4th time in January- so I guess I have to thank that free enterprise crook who screwed me out of the hundred bucks for the leg adjustment. That ripoff incident inspired me to save some money- and the $100 the company virtually stole from me has cost that outfit close to $1000 in lost revenue so far. But you're right about at least one thing if not more. I'm sure the show display rental companies would be able to keep a bit more of their unconscionable fees if they could hire a greater number of illegal, unqualfied, or desperate workers. It's easy for any company or organization charging obscene prices to blame it on "the unions"- but in reality boat show display pricing is more the result of absurd profiteering in a monopolized market. Welcome back to the darkside Chuck. We knew you would come back. ;-) Dark side? I thought we were discussing whether extortionary pricing for boat show display and setup services was a result of union laborers earning $5-10 an hour more than the guys sent out from rent-the-homeless agencies vs. display companies charging 5, 10, or 15 times their actual costs (union or not) for goods and services supplied? :-) Been there, done that, paid the fees. I have an informed opinion. Yeah, the display company costs would be less if they could hire all non-union help, but it would be foolish to expect to see those savings passed along to the exhibitors. If we're going to have to pay through the nose, and other orifices, to display at a boat show it's somewhat gratifying to think that just mayhbe the guy pushing the broom, taking tickets, or walking around on security patrol won't have to sleep under a bridge and go dumpster diving for dinner. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Bert Robbins wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann... To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5 job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord. But what is it that you do that's worth $50? My company believes that I am worth more than $50 an hour. Your opinon or approval means nothing. Where's the other boat Krause? At the moment fully wrapped on the hard in southern Maryland. Is that the Parker or the Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat? Yes. Is it the Parker? |
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