That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates.
Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union
controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in
yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift
delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they
would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the
clock. Pretty sad.
Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent
wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same
So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with
the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's
how it is in the real world.

He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about getting
charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.



Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.

The rules are dictated to them by the union.



Yeah, right...a kid dentist living in Naples, Florida, knows how the
"system" works.

There was a time, not long ago, when 35 years old was considered "old". So
thanks for the compliment.

And I know a lot more about the "system" then you'd imagine. I have
friends, relatives, and patients on both sides of the labor/management
aisle, and have discussed with each of them their perspectives on this.


I just find myself agreeing with the management's argument a lot more often.

That time of year again!
 

wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp

It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.

I have had the same situation in NYC and McCormick Center. It is the
rule at the large Shows in both cities. It is not an urban legend.

No one wants to buck the union and have them screw up your show.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

That time of year again!
 

Don White wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:

Why does it seem like I am having deja vu for the 1000th time? Is it
possible that this same union vs. non-union discussion has been beat
into the ground more than a 1000 times in rec.boats? Does anyone
really believe the pro union people are going to say, "you know, you
are right, unions are responsible for all that ails America" or the
non-union supporters are going to say "you know, you are right, unions
are responsible for creating a level playing field between workers and
management"?

What does anyone expect to gain from repeating the same discussion one
more time?


What's really funny is that certain posters will exclaim with glee that
the unions are losing ground by the day and membership is at an all time
low.....yet they still blame unions for all the ills in the
American/Canadian manufacturing sector.
Seems a lot of power is wielded by a select few.
Yes, all problems in the world can be directly blamed on the union and
their members.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:
Reggie Smithers wrote:
wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself
and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.
Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.

I have had the same situation in NYC and McCormick Center. It is the
rule at the large Shows in both cities. It is not an urban legend.

No one wants to buck the union and have them screw up your show.



Once again, if you are an exhibitor, you are dealing with the facility's
management, not the union.
Harry,
You are correct, and we have no way of knowing what the arrangement with
the union and the exhibitor nor the local fire codes. It does make
sense that the fire dept would set up requirements for the exhibitor.

--
Reggie
************************************************** *************
That's my story and I am sticking to it.

************************************************** *************

That time of year again!
 

"RCE" wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not
represented by the IBEW.

Having attended and exhibited at many trade shows over the years, the fee
for electrical service is a hourly rate with a one hour minimum,
regardless of how long it actually takes to do the job. The 50 buck fee
being discussed here would apply for wiring in a new service, or plugging
in the cord to an existing one. The requirement on the exhibitor to
utilize the exhibit hall contractor, union or not, is mandated by the
exhibit hall insurance regulations.

I don't mind having to pay for that service.

RCE

Thanks for explaining how it works. It certainly makes more sense now.

That time of year again!
 

NOYB wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
news:85OdneshcK6UtGjenZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@comcast .com...

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just
me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp

It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic
control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself
and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of
your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their
hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent
wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?


Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with
the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's
how it is in the real world.


He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about getting
charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.




Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.


The rules are dictated to them by the union.



Dictated?? I belonged to the largest union in Canada for the first 20
or so years on my working like...serving as local treasurer even
president for a period. We didn't do much 'dictating'....... we mostly
spent our time trying to defend members rights accorded to them in a
contract signed by management.
That's right... management couldn't even follow the conditions they
agreed to. It was constant.

That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:
NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

NOYB wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates.
Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union
controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal
with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

He's not talking about "wanting work done". He's talking about
getting charged $50 for plugging in your own extension cord.



Yes, well, the convention center management sets the rules.


The rules are dictated to them by the union.



Yeah, right...a kid dentist living in Naples, Florida, knows how the
"system" works.

I thought his specialty was how to separate the blue rinse Snowbirds
from their money!

That time of year again!
 

That time of year again!
 

wrote:

JimH wrote:

wrote in message
groups.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Check your bill. That simple forklift delivery was almost certainly
billed to you by the show organizers, not directly by the union. The
difference in the wage paid to a union fork lift operator (maybe $10
for a 15-minute delivery) and an illegal alien doing the same job
(maybe $1.50 for a 15-minute delivery) isn't going to run the bill up
to "hundreds of dollars". If the bill is hundreds of dollars, it's the
show organizers or the display rental company that is profiting. Our
local boat show rentals include basic 15-amp power to the booth and
there is no restriction about plugging in you own
display------------however, if you need more power than 15 amps or
require specialized routing of wires etc there would be additional
charges and it isn't unreasonable to pay a $50 minimum for a skilled
electrician.

Or is it actually your opinion that the difference between a $15/hr
unionized concession stand worker (sellling $600 worth of junk food
with a gross margin of over $500 per hour) and a $5.75/hr "guest
worker" making almost the same sales- but not quite because the mental
translation from Spanish to English takes a moment to do- would mean
that everybody should be able to get into the show free? Are you really
saying that the only reason there's an admission charge at all is to
cover the difference in cost between workers smart enough to engage in
collective bargaining with management and workers dumb enough or
desperate enough to be exploited?

You may be on to something. Let's kick out the unions everywhere. No
more admission fees to state fairs, amusement parks, movie theaters,
concerts, plays, boat shows, home shows, car shows, etc. I had no idea
that the only reason admission to all forms of entertainment isn't
completely complimentary was due to the difference between a living
wage and a slave wage. Let them eat stale nachos, I wanna get in free.
:-)

My experience with setting up for boat shows has been that it is the
display companies, not the union laborers, who rape and pillage.
Example: A few shows back I arrived at the booth to find a very, very
short table had been delivered. We had ordered a table with 40" legs so
that one can either stand or sit behind it at various points during the
day. I was looking at something that was too short to sit behind with a
standard chair- let alone a stool- and would have placed our display
far too low for comfortable viewing by show patrons. I went to the show
office and complained, where I was informed that the table delivered to
the booth was exactly what the publisher had requested. It wasn't of
course, but any time there's a monopoly in place- as at a trade show-
you can argue until you are three shades of blue in the face and get
nowhere. I had to agree to pay over $100 to have the table removed and
the proper table delivered, and had to sign a purchase agreement for
that fee at the conclusion of the discussion.

What burned my butt, big time, was when one of the company
representatives showed up at the booth and asked, "Is this the place
that needs the 40-inch table?" When I said yes, the company
representative turned the little table on its side, *extended the
telescoping legs to make it 40-inches high* (!) and said, "Have a nice
show!" No union employee in sight, just an asshole who could have told
me, when I complained, that the legs were adjustable.

When the next show came around, I went out to IKEA and bought a table,
two chairs,
a carpet, etc for just about what Rape and Pillage Display wanted for a
short term rental. We just used that gear for the 4th time in January-
so I guess I have to thank that free enterprise crook who screwed me
out of the hundred bucks for the leg adjustment. That
ripoff incident inspired me to save some money- and the $100 the
company virtually stole from me has cost that outfit close to $1000 in
lost revenue so far.

But you're right about at least one thing if not more. I'm sure the
show display rental companies would be able to keep a bit more of their
unconscionable fees if they could hire a greater number of illegal,
unqualfied, or desperate workers. It's easy for any company or
organization charging obscene prices to blame it on "the unions"- but
in reality boat show display pricing is more the result of absurd
profiteering in a monopolized market.


Welcome back to the darkside Chuck. We knew you would come back. ;-)



Dark side?

I thought we were discussing whether extortionary pricing for boat show
display and setup services was a result of union laborers earning $5-10
an hour more than the guys sent out from rent-the-homeless agencies vs.
display companies charging 5, 10, or 15 times their actual costs (union
or not) for goods and services supplied? :-)

Been there, done that, paid the fees. I have an informed opinion. Yeah,
the display company costs would be less if they could hire all
non-union help, but it would be foolish to expect to see those savings
passed along to the exhibitors. If we're going to have to pay through
the nose, and other orifices, to display at a boat show it's somewhat
gratifying to think that just mayhbe the guy pushing the broom, taking
tickets, or walking around on security patrol won't have to sleep under
a bridge and go dumpster diving for dinner.


No, this started with a $50 charge to plug in an extension cord. No
display setup services required, just an extension cord.

Dan

That time of year again!
 

wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:


The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.


Show me ONE PIECE of evidence that says you have to hire a union
electrician to plug in an extension cord. All of this urban myth stuff
has gotten everyone in a tizzy, so show some damned proof that that is
the rule.....or quit.


Got in late today, Kevin? Sorry, no receipts from McCormick place from
seven years ago - it might be more than $50 for a plug in now. Read the
other posts, I'm not the only one. No one else has disputed the fact.
Maybe they have been to trade shows.