That time of year again!
 

Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.


Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers,
laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially
those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many
times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage
of circumstances.


How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor
has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has
negotiated rates with the convention center.



BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules.



Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are
the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and
representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The
contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called
collective bargaining.


"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't
think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has
to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the
same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.



And what was it that you do that's worth $50?

You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann...

To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5
job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord. I own my
business. I employ 13 non-union workers. I give them a decent wage AND
benefits. No dues are required. And there is never a question as to
where their retirement money is since no one, but them, can access it.

Those who work hard get a bigger raise than those who don't. Strange
concept?

I guess the extension cord job is more lucrative if you don't have to
pay dues AND a vig to a contractor who would pay me.

Where's the other boat Krause?

That time of year again!
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Check your bill. That simple forklift delivery was almost certainly
billed to you by the show organizers, not directly by the union. The
difference in the wage paid to a union fork lift operator (maybe $10
for a 15-minute delivery) and an illegal alien doing the same job
(maybe $1.50 for a 15-minute delivery) isn't going to run the bill up
to "hundreds of dollars". If the bill is hundreds of dollars, it's the
show organizers or the display rental company that is profiting. Our
local boat show rentals include basic 15-amp power to the booth and
there is no restriction about plugging in you own
display------------however, if you need more power than 15 amps or
require specialized routing of wires etc there would be additional
charges and it isn't unreasonable to pay a $50 minimum for a skilled
electrician.

Or is it actually your opinion that the difference between a $15/hr
unionized concession stand worker (sellling $600 worth of junk food
with a gross margin of over $500 per hour) and a $5.75/hr "guest
worker" making almost the same sales- but not quite because the mental
translation from Spanish to English takes a moment to do- would mean
that everybody should be able to get into the show free? Are you really
saying that the only reason there's an admission charge at all is to
cover the difference in cost between workers smart enough to engage in
collective bargaining with management and workers dumb enough or
desperate enough to be exploited?

You may be on to something. Let's kick out the unions everywhere. No
more admission fees to state fairs, amusement parks, movie theaters,
concerts, plays, boat shows, home shows, car shows, etc. I had no idea
that the only reason admission to all forms of entertainment isn't
completely complimentary was due to the difference between a living
wage and a slave wage. Let them eat stale nachos, I wanna get in free.
:-)

My experience with setting up for boat shows has been that it is the
display companies, not the union laborers, who rape and pillage.
Example: A few shows back I arrived at the booth to find a very, very
short table had been delivered. We had ordered a table with 40" legs so
that one can either stand or sit behind it at various points during the
day. I was looking at something that was too short to sit behind with a
standard chair- let alone a stool- and would have placed our display
far too low for comfortable viewing by show patrons. I went to the show
office and complained, where I was informed that the table delivered to
the booth was exactly what the publisher had requested. It wasn't of
course, but any time there's a monopoly in place- as at a trade show-
you can argue until you are three shades of blue in the face and get
nowhere. I had to agree to pay over $100 to have the table removed and
the proper table delivered, and had to sign a purchase agreement for
that fee at the conclusion of the discussion.

What burned my butt, big time, was when one of the company
representatives showed up at the booth and asked, "Is this the place
that needs the 40-inch table?" When I said yes, the company
representative turned the little table on its side, *extended the
telescoping legs to make it 40-inches high* (!) and said, "Have a nice
show!" No union employee in sight, just an asshole who could have told
me, when I complained, that the legs were adjustable.

When the next show came around, I went out to IKEA and bought a table,
two chairs,
a carpet, etc for just about what Rape and Pillage Display wanted for a
short term rental. We just used that gear for the 4th time in January-
so I guess I have to thank that free enterprise crook who screwed me
out of the hundred bucks for the leg adjustment. That
ripoff incident inspired me to save some money- and the $100 the
company virtually stole from me has cost that outfit close to $1000 in
lost revenue so far.

But you're right about at least one thing if not more. I'm sure the
show display rental companies would be able to keep a bit more of their
unconscionable fees if they could hire a greater number of illegal,
unqualfied, or desperate workers. It's easy for any company or
organization charging obscene prices to blame it on "the unions"- but
in reality boat show display pricing is more the result of absurd
profiteering in a monopolized market.


Welcome back to the darkside Chuck. We knew you would come back. ;-)

That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.
Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers,
laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially
those working construction. But you have to admit that unions
many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take
advantage of circumstances.
How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The
contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The
contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center.
BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules.
Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are
the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and
representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The
contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called
collective bargaining.
"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't
think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He
has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get
the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.
And what was it that you do that's worth $50?
Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union
electrician at a convention center is fair?
What I am saying is that the worker is not getting paid $50 for that;
the contractor-employer is.


And thus the rub. ;-)

So how do you justify the charge?


I'm not an electrical contractor. I presume he charges a rate that covers
his direct and indirect labor expenses, overhead, and a small profit.


Ah, but the rate is mandated per the contract with the union hall......not
by the contractor. You keep on missing the point Harry. Focus!

So do all contractors have the same direct and indirect labor expenses,
overhead and *small* profit margins? Does it cost each one of them (or any
of them) $50 for their union electrician to plug in an extension cord?
Could this activity safely be done by the exhibitor?

That time of year again!
 

Dan Krueger wrote:

"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think
for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be
grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay,
the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.

"Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even
begin to establish a level playing field. Now, there are folks who
don't think anybody except the guy with capital invested in a private
company has any right to any sort of fair or equitable
business/employment climate and that such a capital investment grants a
license to exploit any and all dumb or desperate enough to work for
the firm- and those who feel that way are entitled to do so.

Otherwise, the power of the employer to withhold pay is merely offset
by the power of the collective bargainers to withhold services. Seems
pretty fair to me. One side uses every trick in the book to pay as
little as it can get by with, and the other uses every trick in the
book to get paid as much as it possibly can. Yup, that's fair. Not
exclusively advantageous to management and capital- but fair.

Without collective bargaining, it is the employer, not the worker, who
ignores merit and does not differentiate between good and bad workers.
Without collective bargaining, everybody's job is constantly at risk if
some guy happens along who will whore out for a buck an hour less.

If an employer is paying a decent wage, he has a right to demand
excellence. If an employer is paying dog-crap wages, he isn't going to
attract many workers who will hang around long enough to distinguish
themselves from the herd by virtue of outstanding productivity or
efficiency, and a lot of the guys paying dog-crap wages really aren't
interested in finding the most cost efficient employees but rather just
the lowest cost employees.

That time of year again!
 

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:

"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think
for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be
grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay,
the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.

"Collective bargaining" is the only means by which the worker can even
begin to establish a level playing field. Now, there are folks who
don't think anybody except the guy with capital invested in a private
company has any right to any sort of fair or equitable
business/employment climate and that such a capital investment grants a
license to exploit any and all dumb or desperate enough to work for
the firm- and those who feel that way are entitled to do so.

Otherwise, the power of the employer to withhold pay is merely offset
by the power of the collective bargainers to withhold services. Seems
pretty fair to me. One side uses every trick in the book to pay as
little as it can get by with, and the other uses every trick in the
book to get paid as much as it possibly can. Yup, that's fair. Not
exclusively advantageous to management and capital- but fair.

Without collective bargaining, it is the employer, not the worker, who
ignores merit and does not differentiate between good and bad workers.
Without collective bargaining, everybody's job is constantly at risk if
some guy happens along who will whore out for a buck an hour less.

If an employer is paying a decent wage, he has a right to demand
excellence. If an employer is paying dog-crap wages, he isn't going to
attract many workers who will hang around long enough to distinguish
themselves from the herd by virtue of outstanding productivity or
efficiency, and a lot of the guys paying dog-crap wages really aren't
interested in finding the most cost efficient employees but rather just
the lowest cost employees.


Welcome back to the Dark Side Chuck.

That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug
it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds.
Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip
while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.
Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you
deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a
replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords!

Dan
What do you do that's worth $50?
Is that your best shot Harry? Really?
I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of
the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay.

Duh! I never said otherwise Harry.

I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about
union electricians at convention centers.

Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry?
Might be. Depends on many factors.


And there lies the problem.


I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention
center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular
construction rate.



Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not
a construction job Harry. Don't you get it?


It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not
represented by the IBEW.


Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland
Convention Center.

I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either.

Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are
negotiated with local contractors. ;-)
Union rates result from collective bargaining negotiations. You seem to
not understand the concept.

Sure I do, but perhaps you do not. You previously stated that the costs are
negotiated by the individual contractor(s).

Did you forget that already Harry?

That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates.
Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union
controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers,
laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially
those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many
times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of
circumstances.

How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor
has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has
negotiated rates with the convention center.


BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules.


Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are
the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and
representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The
contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called
collective bargaining.

"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think
for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be
grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay,
the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.


And what was it that you do that's worth $50?

You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann...

To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5
job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord.


But what is it that you do that's worth $50?

My company believes that I am worth more than $50 an hour. Your opinon or
approval means nothing.

Where's the other boat Krause?

At the moment fully wrapped on the hard in southern Maryland.

Is that the Parker or the Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat?

That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
JimH wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug
it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds.
Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip
while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.
Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

So?

You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you
deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has
contracted. That's how it is in the real world.

Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a
replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords!

Dan
What do you do that's worth $50?
Is that your best shot Harry? Really?
I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of
the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay.

Duh! I never said otherwise Harry.

I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about
union electricians at convention centers.

Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry?
Might be. Depends on many factors.


And there lies the problem.


I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention
center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular
construction rate.



Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not
a construction job Harry. Don't you get it?


It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not
represented by the IBEW.


Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland
Convention Center.

I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either.

Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are
negotiated with local contractors. ;-)
Union rates result from collective bargaining negotiations. You seem to
not understand the concept.

The concept is well understood. We want this amount regardless of whether we
do a good job or not.

Pay for performance is common in the real business world.

That time of year again!
 

JimH wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:
Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday.
Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or
does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp


It should be free.

It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition
companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control,
ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union
electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and
you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your
booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand
out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad.

Check your bill. That simple forklift delivery was almost certainly
billed to you by the show organizers, not directly by the union. The
difference in the wage paid to a union fork lift operator (maybe $10
for a 15-minute delivery) and an illegal alien doing the same job
(maybe $1.50 for a 15-minute delivery) isn't going to run the bill up
to "hundreds of dollars". If the bill is hundreds of dollars, it's the
show organizers or the display rental company that is profiting. Our
local boat show rentals include basic 15-amp power to the booth and
there is no restriction about plugging in you own
display------------however, if you need more power than 15 amps or
require specialized routing of wires etc there would be additional
charges and it isn't unreasonable to pay a $50 minimum for a skilled
electrician.

Or is it actually your opinion that the difference between a $15/hr
unionized concession stand worker (sellling $600 worth of junk food
with a gross margin of over $500 per hour) and a $5.75/hr "guest
worker" making almost the same sales- but not quite because the mental
translation from Spanish to English takes a moment to do- would mean
that everybody should be able to get into the show free? Are you really
saying that the only reason there's an admission charge at all is to
cover the difference in cost between workers smart enough to engage in
collective bargaining with management and workers dumb enough or
desperate enough to be exploited?

You may be on to something. Let's kick out the unions everywhere. No
more admission fees to state fairs, amusement parks, movie theaters,
concerts, plays, boat shows, home shows, car shows, etc. I had no idea
that the only reason admission to all forms of entertainment isn't
completely complimentary was due to the difference between a living
wage and a slave wage. Let them eat stale nachos, I wanna get in free.
:-)

My experience with setting up for boat shows has been that it is the
display companies, not the union laborers, who rape and pillage.
Example: A few shows back I arrived at the booth to find a very, very
short table had been delivered. We had ordered a table with 40" legs so
that one can either stand or sit behind it at various points during the
day. I was looking at something that was too short to sit behind with a
standard chair- let alone a stool- and would have placed our display
far too low for comfortable viewing by show patrons. I went to the show
office and complained, where I was informed that the table delivered to
the booth was exactly what the publisher had requested. It wasn't of
course, but any time there's a monopoly in place- as at a trade show-
you can argue until you are three shades of blue in the face and get
nowhere. I had to agree to pay over $100 to have the table removed and
the proper table delivered, and had to sign a purchase agreement for
that fee at the conclusion of the discussion.

What burned my butt, big time, was when one of the company
representatives showed up at the booth and asked, "Is this the place
that needs the 40-inch table?" When I said yes, the company
representative turned the little table on its side, *extended the
telescoping legs to make it 40-inches high* (!) and said, "Have a nice
show!" No union employee in sight, just an asshole who could have told
me, when I complained, that the legs were adjustable.

When the next show came around, I went out to IKEA and bought a table,
two chairs,
a carpet, etc for just about what Rape and Pillage Display wanted for a
short term rental. We just used that gear for the 4th time in January-
so I guess I have to thank that free enterprise crook who screwed me
out of the hundred bucks for the leg adjustment. That
ripoff incident inspired me to save some money- and the $100 the
company virtually stole from me has cost that outfit close to $1000 in
lost revenue so far.

But you're right about at least one thing if not more. I'm sure the
show display rental companies would be able to keep a bit more of their
unconscionable fees if they could hire a greater number of illegal,
unqualfied, or desperate workers. It's easy for any company or
organization charging obscene prices to blame it on "the unions"- but
in reality boat show display pricing is more the result of absurd
profiteering in a monopolized market.


Welcome back to the darkside Chuck. We knew you would come back. ;-)


Dark side?

I thought we were discussing whether extortionary pricing for boat show
display and setup services was a result of union laborers earning $5-10
an hour more than the guys sent out from rent-the-homeless agencies vs.
display companies charging 5, 10, or 15 times their actual costs (union
or not) for goods and services supplied? :-)

Been there, done that, paid the fees. I have an informed opinion. Yeah,
the display company costs would be less if they could hire all
non-union help, but it would be foolish to expect to see those savings
passed along to the exhibitors. If we're going to have to pay through
the nose, and other orifices, to display at a boat show it's somewhat
gratifying to think that just mayhbe the guy pushing the broom, taking
tickets, or walking around on security patrol won't have to sleep under
a bridge and go dumpster diving for dinner.

That time of year again!
 

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Bert Robbins wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Dan Krueger wrote:
Harry Krause wrote:

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

JimH wrote:

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

JimH wrote:

" JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message
...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
. ..

Dan Krueger wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

Don White wrote:

The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through
Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00.
Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive?
http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp
It should be free.
It should be free but many of these shows are run by large
exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant
rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all
union controlled.

I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a
union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it
in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple
forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even
worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while
they are on the clock. Pretty sad.
Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a
decent wage with benefits.

What do *you* do that's worth $50?

Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the
International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other
unionized convention centers are the same

BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers,
laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially
those working construction. But you have to admit that unions
many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take
advantage of circumstances.
How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The
contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The
contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center.

BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules.

Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are
the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and
representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The
contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called
collective bargaining.
"Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't
think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He
has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get
the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc.

Still sad.

And what was it that you do that's worth $50?
You sound like Dave "show me the Lobsta boat" Mann...

To answer your question, I work about 20 minutes for $50 assuming a 9-5
job - longer than it takes to plug in an extension cord.

But what is it that you do that's worth $50?

My company believes that I am worth more than $50 an hour. Your opinon or
approval means nothing.

Where's the other boat Krause?
At the moment fully wrapped on the hard in southern Maryland.

Is that the Parker or the Zimmerman like Lobsta' boat?


Yes.

Is it the Parker?