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That time of year again!
Harry Krause wrote:
Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. You obviously have no knowledge of the construction contracting business. What do you do that's worth $50? You are assuming it take an hour to plug in one extension cord. That might be correct in the union world. You would know better! Dan |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? Convention center jobs are going overseas? Union jobs certainly are. Sure. US Corporations are taking us to the bottom, heading back to the middle ages. Nope, it is now all about brain not brawn. The unions have led businesses into bankruptcy or caused them to delegate their manufacturing to overseas in order to make a profit. That is indisputable. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. BS! My 21 year old daughter works part time in a restaurant (she is a full time college student) and earns $10/hour. My soon to be 18 year old son will earn more than that/hour during the summer painting frigging houses. What's your point? My statement was I don't know of a major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. Are you disputing me on that? Brain fart. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union electrician at a convention center is fair? |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Get me a 9-5 job with paid benefits, four week's vacation, and I'll sell my business and plug in extension cords for $50 each all day long. While some construction workers work 9-5, most work from sunrise to mid=afternoon. Inside jobs, of course, are different. If you want to be a journeyman electrician, attend a four or five year apprenticeship program. Oh...the paid benefits...they're part of the pay package. They're negotiated and are there as part of the total hourly rate. They're not given. Help me with this part: "He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers". Does this mean a guy sits in a chair, takes $40, gives $10 to an uneducated yahoo to PLUG IN AN EXTENSION CORD and that is OK? I don't know of one major market where union electricians are paid only $10 an hour. You obviously have no knowledge of the construction contracting business. What do you do that's worth $50? This reminds me of the time I went down to Ft. Lauderdale to record some datacom lines at an major credit card company's data center. When I arrived I asked where the power outlet was to plug in my data line recorder. I was told that we can lift the floor tile but, we can not plug in the equipment without a union electrician. So, the network engineer called the electricians shop and asked for an electricain. An hour and forty-five minutes later the electrician showed up and plugged my equipment into the standard electric socket. Before, the electrician left he said to give him a call when I was ready to have the equipment unplugged. I responded "ok". Once the door shut the network engineer said that the electrical plug to my equipment would probably get accidentally kicked out of the electrical socket and that we would need to call the electricians shop to get a union electrician to unplug the equipment from the electrical outlet. The plug was accidentally kicked out and I went back to the airport to catch the next flight back to DC. |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. No, that is how some unions chose to make it in the real world. Wonder why jobs are going overseas? Convention center jobs are going overseas? Union jobs certainly are. Sure. US Corporations are taking us to the bottom, heading back to the middle ages. How. They say they have job X and it pays Y. Take it or leave it. If you don't like what you are being offered by the big bad corporations then start your own and keep all of the money for yourself. There is maximum oppourtunity in the US of A and if you just want to sit around and wait for somebody to tell you what to do you will never make the big money. Or, if you want to put a little bit of sweat equity into something you will reap the rewards! |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same So? You go to a prime convention center, you want work done, you deal with the contractors with whom the convention center has contracted. That's how it is in the real world. Chicago? Do you think they had a choice? They didn't build a replica of the Statue of Liberty, they plug in extension cords! Dan What do you do that's worth $50? Is that your best shot Harry? Really? I know what construction workers earn, or at least I do for many of the trades in a number of cities. They earn their pay. Duh! I never said otherwise Harry. I was not talking about construction workers. I am talking about union electricians at convention centers. Is that now viewed as a *construction* job by the unions Harry? Might be. Depends on many factors. And there lies the problem. I'm not familiar with the contract between the IBEW and your convention center. It is unlikely the inside work rate exceeds the regular construction rate. Connecting an extension cord at a display in a convention centert is not a construction job Harry. Don't you get it? It is also possible that your convention center's electricians are not represented by the IBEW. Nope. Not the case with the Cleveland IX Center or the Cleveland Convention Center. I am sure it is not the case with Chicago's McCormick Center either. Besides, I thought you previously claimed that the union rates are negotiated with local contractors. ;-) |
That time of year again!
"Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: JimH wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... JimH wrote: " JimH" jimh_osudad@yahooDOT comREMOVETHIS wrote in message ... "Harry Krause" wrote in message . .. Dan Krueger wrote: Harry Krause wrote: Don White wrote: The local boat show starts at noon today and runs through Sunday. Newspaper says admission fee has jumped to $ 10.00. Is it just me..or does that seem a bit excessive? http://www.masterpromotions.ca/halif...-boat-show.asp It should be free. It should be free but many of these shows are run by large exhibition companies employing union labor at exorbitant rates. Traffic control, ticket sales, security, etc. are all union controlled. I have attended shows where you would have to literally pay a union electrician $50 to plug in your extension cord. Plug it in yourself and you would be charged the same $50. Simple forklift delivery of your booth materials cost hundreds. Even worse, they would put their hand out looking for a tip while they are on the clock. Pretty sad. Poor Dan. He had to pay a contractor who paid his workers a decent wage with benefits. What do *you* do that's worth $50? Dan speaks the truth Harry. That is the way it goes at the International Exposition Center in Cleveland. I am sure other unionized convention centers are the same BTW: I have all respect for union electricians, plumbers, laborers, masons, ironworkers and equipment operators, especially those working construction. But you have to admit that unions many times (as in the case Dan posted) the same unions take advantage of circumstances. How so? The union elecricians work for a contractor. The contractor has the arrangement with the convention center. The contractor has negotiated rates with the convention center. BS. The union, not the contractor, wrote the rules. Sorry, but virtually all union rates in the construction trades are the result of negotiations between representatives of the unions and representatives of the union contractors for whom they work. The contractor then negotiates his rates with his customers. It's called collective bargaining. "Collective bargaining" says it all. The individual either can't think for himself or can't earn his own wage on his own merit. He has to be grouped with a variety of worker - good and bad - to get the same pay, the same raises, the same treatment, etc. Still sad. And what was it that you do that's worth $50? Are you saying that a $50 to plug in an extension cord by a union electrician at a convention center is fair? What I am saying is that the worker is not getting paid $50 for that; the contractor-employer is. And thus the rub. ;-) So how do you justify the charge? |
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