Harry Krause wrote:


Was this a backyard project boat, Chuck?
Hull completed in 1990...
Launched many years later...
Engine from 1985...


This boat was built by the original owner, as time and funds were
available, over a period of several years. The term "backyard project"
would seem to denote some clueless neophyte at work, but it's pretty
obvious the guy knew exactly what he was doing and did it well.

wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/dkjym


Thanks for the link, Chuck. Interesting boat, if it weren't
on the opposite coast I'd go take a look myself.


..... 70,000 lb
displacement, deep draft, full displacement hull? This is what a true
seagoing boat looks like.


That's not a boat, it's a ship.

Skipper wrote:
To your eye maybe, but not mine. AND I suppose it does depend on what
your definition of is is. While the boat is pleasing to the eye, it is
not the best choice for the stated usage. It's a boat better suited for
inward passage cruising, IMO. Suspect you may have fallen victim to a
bit of stableblindness here, Chuck.


???

Given reasonable structural integrity, that particular boat
looks quite seaworthy to my eye as well.

I'll mention just a few of the obvious problems with your choice of the
best boat for the stated usage:

1- Fuel costs for this vessel is about $200+ per day.

Uh huh. And in a ~50' 30 ton power vessel, what would you
expect for fuel consumption? Unless you're willing to go 5
knots it's very unlikely you'll do any better in any type hull.


.... Sail might be the
more prudent choice.


Yeah, but then you'd have to learn to sail.

2- I believe roll could well be a problem offshore with that boat's
unstablized rounded bottom.


It might be uncomfortable to a landlubber, but if the boat
is ballasted as stated, there is no question of it's
stability. I'd rather have a boat that rolled & had good
reserve stability that one that jerked & slammed, and might
flip bottom-up from a very shallow angle.


3- Only having one (1) head on long voyages is more of risk than I'd
like to assume.


Yeah many lives are lost at sea that way....

I suppose the issue of proper maintenance on the head would
never occur to you? What about the boat's other equipment,
like a single engine?

4- The boat is well short of the amenities needed for such a voyage.
Ground tackle also seems substandard for the intended usage. That
$225,000 asking would only be the starting point to equip this boat for
offshore passagemaking.


I think Chuck tried to make this point to you earlier when
you were griping that he couldn't find you a boat for your
desired price.



Reggie Smithers wrote:
Skipper,
Give us a link of your ideal boat within your price range.


What he said.

Regards
Doug King

DSK wrote:

Skipper wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/dkjym

To your eye maybe, but not mine. AND I suppose it does depend on what
your definition of is is. While the boat is pleasing to the eye, it is
not the best choice for the stated usage. It's a boat better suited for
inward passage cruising, IMO.

Given reasonable structural integrity, that particular boat
looks quite seaworthy to my eye.

The original spec was for safe and *comfortable* passage. I guarantee
excessive roll would be a problem in offshore seaways with that
hullform. That effects BOTH safe and comfortable passage. Yes,
stabilizers or vanes could mitigate the problem, but not as well as
sail. That low midships freeboard would also insure wet decks. And let's
not forget the starting point for this boat is $200,000+. When you add
safety gear, electronics, and other amenities required for offshore
passagemaking where do you see the costs to splash this boat?

I'll mention just a few of the obvious problems with your choice of the
best boat for the stated usage:

1- Fuel costs for this vessel is about $200+ per day.

Uh huh. And in a ~50' vessel, what would you
expect for fuel consumption?

Considerably higher than for a proper sailboat.

.... Sail might be the more prudent choice.

Yeah, but then you'd have to learn to sail.

Well then, we are always learnin'.

2- I believe roll could well be a problem offshore with that boat's
unstablized rounded bottom.

It might be uncomfortable to a landlubber, but if the boat
is ballasted as stated, there is no question of it's
stability. I'd rather have a boat that rolled & had good
reserve stability that one that jerked & slammed, and might
flip bottom-up from a very shallow angle.

Most prudent and experienced sailors would prefer less roll.

3- Only having one (1) head on long voyages is more of risk than I'd
like to assume.

Yeah many lives are lost at sea that way....

Believe you underestimate the risk here also.

--
Skipper

Harry Krause wrote:

Some parts of the boat have attractive lines, but other parts are a dead
giveaway that it was a backyard project boat. While a qualified surveyor
might attest to its general condition or integrity, betting on whether
the boat was seakindly would take someone willing to accept long odds. A
quick trial isn't going to tell you much.

For $200,000 plus, there are many nice choices available in used
cruising boats. This particular behemoth would not be one I'd consider
if I were in that market.

But it is a very interesting boat, to be sure.

Can't believe I actually concur with his preliminary assessment.

--
Skipper

Given reasonable structural integrity, that particular boat
looks quite seaworthy to my eye.


Skipper wrote:
The original spec was for safe and *comfortable* passage. I guarantee
excessive roll would be a problem in offshore seaways with that
hullform.

I guarantee that
1- you could install a set of stabilizer fins on that
particular boat

2- any boat in a seaway is going to roll. If you can't stand
it, don't go to sea in a boat.


... That low midships freeboard would also insure wet decks.

And higher freeboard would do *what* exactly to the
stability & rolling?


.... And let's
not forget the starting point for this boat is $200,000+. When you add
safety gear, electronics, and other amenities required for offshore
passagemaking where do you see the costs to splash this boat?


That's the asking price, not the getting price... but
personally I'd expect to spend 10% of the boat's price on
commissioning it to my tastes, as a minimum, and budget a
lot more if the boat is poorly equipped.

Judging by the pics, it looks like this boat was at least
prepared for short range use, which is a good starting point.

OTOH what have you found on the market that is a
substantially better vessel at a substantially better price?



I'll mention just a few of the obvious problems with your choice of the
best boat for the stated usage:


1- Fuel costs for this vessel is about $200+ per day.



Uh huh. And in a ~50' vessel, what would you
expect for fuel consumption?


Considerably higher than for a proper sailboat.


And were you shopping for a sailboat? You've never mentioned
the slightest interest in sailing... that I saw, admittedly
I don't read even 1/10th of your posts.


.... Sail might be the more prudent choice.


Yeah, but then you'd have to learn to sail.


Well then, we are always learnin'.


Years back when you were looking for a passagemaker, did you
tell Chuck you wanted a sailboat? If so, I missed that part
of the story.

Another thing you might be interested to know is that
sailboats don't cost substantially less to operate over a
given period of time. You can look at several industry
studies on the subject. The common perception that sailors
are cheapskates is not backed up in fact.

DSK

"Shortwave Sportfishing" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 07:26:48 -0500, DSK wrote:

Skipper wrote:
The original spec was for a boat (power OR sail) capable of safe and
comfortable passage between the Gulf of Alaska and San Carlos, Sonora,
Mexico. The stated budget was $180,000. A length of 50' was mentioned
because buyer is 6'3" and standup headroom was a must.

There are a number of 30' boats with 6'3" headroom. To
request a 50-footer for that is absurd.

pah - headroom, schmedroom - bend over like the rest of us.

OK, Igor.

Harry Krause wrote:


For $200,000 plus, there are many nice choices available in used
cruising boats. This particular behemoth would not be one I'd consider
if I were in that market.

But it is a very interesting boat, to be sure.

If you know of some good bluewater long range cruising boats, 50-feet
or thereabouts, available for around $200k, why not post a link to one?

One of the challenges Skipper has faced all these years hasn't been a
lack of suitable boats available, but rather a lack of suitable boats
in good condition in his price range.
It seems that he also expects to find one ready to go, with no
modifications or upgrades required for his intended use.

I think he may indeed find few more choices among sailboats capable of
making HI from the West Coast (and if capable of that, it will coastal
cruise from AK to MEX), available at that $180,000 price bracket., but
I don't pretend to know much about sailboats or sailing.

wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

For $200,000 plus, there are many nice choices available in used
cruising boats. This particular behemoth would not be one I'd consider
if I were in that market.

If you know of some good bluewater long range cruising boats, 50-feet
or thereabouts, available for around $200k, why not post a link to one?

Skipper posted a NG Challenge to this forum yesterday suspecting there
would be no serious takers. Had the exact same post been issued to the
cruising NG, many responsible replies would have been forthcoming. He
would not, of course, issue to that NG because of the flaming idjits
that post would attract there. This was once the premier boating NG in
Usenet. Sadly, that is no longer true.

In that same vein, had Skipper posted info about his boat or ANY subject
boat, the info would only fuel more mindless flames. After all, that is
all some 'contributors' bring to the table these days.

--
Skipper

"Skipper" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Harry Krause wrote:

For $200,000 plus, there are many nice choices available in used
cruising boats. This particular behemoth would not be one I'd consider
if I were in that market.

If you know of some good bluewater long range cruising boats, 50-feet
or thereabouts, available for around $200k, why not post a link to one?

Skipper posted a NG Challenge to this forum yesterday suspecting there
would be no serious takers. Had the exact same post been issued to the
cruising NG, many responsible replies would have been forthcoming. He
would not, of course, issue to that NG because of the flaming idjits
that post would attract there. This was once the premier boating NG in
Usenet. Sadly, that is no longer true.

In that same vein, had Skipper posted info about his boat or ANY subject
boat, the info would only fuel more mindless flames. After all, that is
all some 'contributors' bring to the table these days.

--
Skipper



Skipper, ask Skipper if he smokes pot.

Eisboch

On 22 Jan 2006 12:10:37 -0800, wrote:

It seems that he also expects to find one ready to go, with no
modifications or upgrades required for his intended use.

Totally unrealistic of course. A new 50 is out of the question at
$1M+, and any used 50 at $200K is going to need lots of work before it
goes safely offshore. Speaking from recent experience it is very easy
to spend $15K+ just on basic communications equipment and safety gear
for offshore passaging. Upgraded RADAR, sounder and Nav equipment is
at least another $10K with professional installation. Virtually all
used boats will be deficient in most of these areas in addition to
having a lot of deferred maintenance on the mechanical equipment.

Sail is out of the question for anyone over 60 and with no experience.

Diesel fuel, even on a LRC is going to run about $1/mile. Basic
maintenance will add at least another $1/mile.